summer23
Full Member
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There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,858
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Post by summer23 on Apr 24, 2024 9:33:12 GMT -5
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Post by pickle20 on Apr 24, 2024 9:42:09 GMT -5
Give me a break. If you can't handle being asked a question then maybe it's time for another one of your breaks from the forum. Maybe you should try answering my question before trying to gaslight me. Worry about you, not me. This will forum will go down in flames before I am chased out. "How do you quantify that?" Because like the incident you posted about, there have been few physical confrontations or violence between the protestors and counter protestors. There are many Jews who are protesting for peace or Palestinians. It seems to me that the accusations of antisemitism are inflated. A way to silence any calls for peace or Palestinian rights and freedom. How's that? And now, let me ask you the question again: How do you quantify that these protests are antisemitic?
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Post by soulflower on Apr 24, 2024 9:48:56 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 24, 2024 10:48:23 GMT -5
Just a couple of reminders for those who have forgotten: The Palestinian side in this is the pro-war side, the Israeli side is the anti-war side. How do I figure this? 1) The Palestinians launched this war on October 7. 2) The Israelis have been to the table about a cease fire multiple times and been repeatedly rebuffed by Hamas. 3) And the people at these protests are calling for continued attacks on Israel. Claiming to be anti-war while supporting the Palestinians and these protests is a contradiction. So the people trying to shut down these pro-Gaza-war protests (the Police and the Jewish community) are the anti-Gaza-war protestors, and the efforts to stymie the NYPD in their efforts to do something about the "we are Hamas" crowd is weaponized antisemitism. 1 - Wrong. Hamas secretly planned and launched the Oct. 7th attacks. Polls from prior to Oct 7th show that most Palestinians opposed breaking their ceasefire with Israel that existed at the time. Even Hamas' political-wing was not aware of the military-wing's plans. Hamas owns Oct 7th, not the Palestinian people. Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire2 - Netanyahu opposes the Two-State solution and recently said he's proud of the fact that he has successfully blocked a Palestinian state. He says it's 'Israel: from the river to the sea' frequently. Benjamin Netanyahu Brags He's ‘Proud’ To Have Prevented A Palestinian State3 - So what? Do you support the first amendment or not? There were people on January 6 calling for the government to be overthrown but you defend their speech Rights. Don't be a hypocrite. I'm principled and that's why I routinely defend the speech Rights of conservatives whom I may disagree with 80% of the time. I also support the right of pro-Israel people to counterprotest. No one's speech should be cancelled or censored. 1) Stop deflecting. What the Palestinians collectively want isn't germane to this discussion. Hamas started this. The war-mongers protesting at Columbia, Yale, etc., openly support Hamas. Therefore they openly support the attack of October 7, and they're war-mongers demanding for more violence. To the extent there are actual Palestinians at these war-mongering rallies, they're also pro-Hamas. 2) Everyone who has ever said "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!" is advocating for a single Palestinian state wiping out Israel. Hamas also opposes a two state solution. They've been offered it several times and turned it down. Israel set up a de-facto Palestinian state in Gaza back in 2006, and that's clearly failed. The Palestinians want all of Israel and the Jews either gone or killed. Really, they always have. All the way back to when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's buddy in the 1930s and tried to export the Holocaust to Israel. 3) If you're openly calling for violence, the First Amendment is not a good shield, and you are not a good person. Look, I realize none of you lefties have actually read or thought about my position on the J6 riots so you're all speaking from ignorance. So let me try to explain again. Maybe actually read it this time: I have made it clear that what happened on J6 was a protest that spiraled into a riot. I don't know why so many of the board left (and some allegedly conservative members as well) reads that as me supporting riots, but it has become clear that me insisting that it was a riot and NOT an "insurrection" is interpreted as me supporting riots. Furthermore, my main issue with how the events of J6 have been prosecuted has less to do with the actual charges* and more to do with the fact that similar behavior from the pro-Gaza war/Hamas/ANTIFA/BLM types isn't prosecuted at all. If you want to pin an "inciting violence" charge on "Hang Mike Pence Guy" be my guest. Just make sure you get "We are Hamas" girl, and the "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" people too. 'Cause if you're ONLY going to get "Hang Mike Pence Guy" you're setting up a selective prosecution problem that undermines our justice system. *it is becoming increasingly clear that SCOTUS isn't buying the "obstructing an official proceeding" charge. In Fischer v. US they, too, asked a version of: "we noticed that all of these disruptive protests haven't resulted in anyone else being charged with 'obstructing an official proceeding.' Why is that?"
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 24, 2024 10:49:21 GMT -5
If only there were actually protesting against slaughter... and not openly advocating for it.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 24, 2024 11:02:11 GMT -5
1 - Wrong. Hamas secretly planned and launched the Oct. 7th attacks. Polls from prior to Oct 7th show that most Palestinians opposed breaking their ceasefire with Israel that existed at the time. Even Hamas' political-wing was not aware of the military-wing's plans. Hamas owns Oct 7th, not the Palestinian people. Polls Show Majority of Gazans Were Against Breaking Ceasefire2 - Netanyahu opposes the Two-State solution and recently said he's proud of the fact that he has successfully blocked a Palestinian state. He says it's 'Israel: from the river to the sea' frequently. Benjamin Netanyahu Brags He's ‘Proud’ To Have Prevented A Palestinian State3 - So what? Do you support the first amendment or not? There were people on January 6 calling for the government to be overthrown but you defend their speech Rights. Don't be a hypocrite. I'm principled and that's why I routinely defend the speech Rights of conservatives whom I may disagree with 80% of the time. I also support the right of pro-Israel people to counterprotest. No one's speech should be cancelled or censored. 1) Stop deflecting.
I didn't "deflect", I challenged your attempts to spread misinformation. It's also factually incorrect to call all pro-Palestine protesters "pro-Hamas". 2) Everyone who has ever said "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!" is advocating for a single Palestinian state wiping out Israel. That's false. Netanyahu and his political party, Likud, also use "From the river to the sea". Is Netanyahu calling for genocide of the seven million Palestinians who live within Israel's territory? It means different things depending on who says it. Most pro-Palestine protesters just want freedom and democracy for all in Israel-Palestine. Implying that everyone who says the phrase means one thing and nothing else is dishonest political hackery.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 24, 2024 11:10:43 GMT -5
I didn't "deflect", I challenged your attempts to spread misinformation. It's also factually incorrect to call all pro-Palestine protesters "pro-Hamas". 2) Everyone who has ever said "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!" is advocating for a single Palestinian state wiping out Israel. That's false. Netanyahu and his political party, Likud, also use "From the river to the sea". Is Netanyahu calling for genocide of the seven million Palestinians who live within Israel's territory? It means different things depending on who says it. Most pro-Palestine protesters just want freedom and democracy for all in Israel-Palestine. Implying that everyone who says the phrase means one thing and nothing else is dishonest political hackery. 1) No you didn't. You set up a strawman. We're talking about what the warmongering ralliers at Columbia are demanding (More Intifada!), not what Palestinians in Gaza want (though clearly they also mostly support Hamas). It is 100% factual to call Pro-Palestine protesters "Pro-Hamas" when they're chanting "We are Hamas!" 2) You clearly don't know what you're talking about: a) the river is the Jordan River. b) the sea is the Mediterranean Sea. c) chanting "from the River to the Sea, Palestine will be free!" means that there will be no Israel. d) doesn't apply when its "from the River to the Sea, Israel will be free!" Why? Because Israel is a pluralistic democratic society. Gaza ran all of the Jews out. 3) Is it dishonest political hackery to say that everyone who chants "We are Hamas!" supports Hamas? Or do you see your mistake now?
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Post by soulflower on Apr 24, 2024 11:34:38 GMT -5
I didn't "deflect", I challenged your attempts to spread misinformation. It's also factually incorrect to call all pro-Palestine protesters "pro-Hamas". That's false. Netanyahu and his political party, Likud, also use "From the river to the sea". Is Netanyahu calling for genocide of the seven million Palestinians who live within Israel's territory? It means different things depending on who says it. Most pro-Palestine protesters just want freedom and democracy for all in Israel-Palestine. Implying that everyone who says the phrase means one thing and nothing else is dishonest political hackery. 1) No you didn't. You set up a strawman. We're talking about what the warmongering ralliers at Columbia are demanding (More Intifada!), not what Palestinians in Gaza want (though clearly they also mostly support Hamas). It is 100% factual to call Pro-Palestine protesters "Pro-Hamas" when they're chanting "We are Hamas!" You brought up Palestinians and October 7th. I fact-checked you. I can't speak for every single protester in the thousands of protests that have happened around the world the last few months but I'm certain that most don't describe themselves as "pro-Hamas". You have no idea what you're talking about because I highly doubt you've ever attended or participated in any of these protests. A viral video of someone behaving badly somewhere in the world doesn't represent the entirety of all protests. We're talking past each other because you're unable to see beyond the Israeli hasbara (Israel's word for propaganda that targets westerners) that you frequently spread here on the forum.
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