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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 12:29:34 GMT -5
I’m aware of that. Russia’s war in Chechnya in the 90s was probably as brutal as Israel’s war in Gaza. But the rebels attacking Russia currently aren’t ethnic minorities. They’re Russian neo-nazi allies of Ukraine. It has no chance of succeeding because they have little to no political support within Russia… Don't care if they are neo-nazi. Don't care if they are Russian. They could be Incan neo-meerkats for all I care. They are diverting Russian attention. I'd love to see them blow something up much further into Russia. St. Petersburg would be a good place to start. Then your opposition to terrorism that you expressed in the Yemen thread was conditions-based. You seem to be arguing in favor of terrorism against Russia. The rebels are also literal nazis: Anti-Putin Militias Celebrating Attacks on Russia Are Filled With Neo-NazisMake no mistake, Ukrainian intelligence is coordinating the efforts to launch drone attacks and terrorism inside Russia but it hasn't changed anything fundamentally on the frontlines for Ukraine.
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 12:39:54 GMT -5
Don't care if they are neo-nazi. Don't care if they are Russian. They could be Incan neo-meerkats for all I care. They are diverting Russian attention. I'd love to see them blow something up much further into Russia. St. Petersburg would be a good place to start. Then your opposition to terrorism that you expressed in the Yemen thread was conditions-based. You seem to be arguing in favor of terrorism against Russia. The rebels are also literal nazis: Anti-Putin Militias Celebrating Attacks on Russia Are Filled With Neo-NazisMake no mistake, Ukrainian intelligence is coordinating the efforts to launch drone attacks and terrorism inside Russia but it hasn't changed anything fundamentally on the frontlines for Ukraine. So? First of all, show me the terrorist acts. The action in Belgorod is, by your own admission, headed by Russian citizens, making it, in fact, a revolution by definition. Greasing bullets in pig fact is hardly an act of terror. Outside nations have often supported such forces. (See; French Navy 1775, off the east coast of the British colonies in North America). Such assistance becomes even more necessary as attack ranges increase in response to improved technology. That the RDK is led by a neo-Nazi just isn't that important, at least right now. It is occupying and killing Russian military and damaging equipment. More importantly, it creates doubt about Moscow's ability to protect its own.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 13:09:31 GMT -5
Then your opposition to terrorism that you expressed in the Yemen thread was conditions-based. You seem to be arguing in favor of terrorism against Russia. The rebels are also literal nazis: Anti-Putin Militias Celebrating Attacks on Russia Are Filled With Neo-NazisMake no mistake, Ukrainian intelligence is coordinating the efforts to launch drone attacks and terrorism inside Russia but it hasn't changed anything fundamentally on the frontlines for Ukraine. So? First of all, show me the terrorist acts. Aiming artillery at residential neighborhoods with no military targets in sight is terrorism. Civilians in Russia have been killed in these attacks. The action in Belgorod is, by your own admission, headed by Russian citizens, making it, in fact, a revolution by definition. That's a stretch. You're muddling the differences between an uprising and terrorism by ignoring the fact that these guys have no political support within Russia. For example, if American citizens allied with Iran attacked military and civilian targets in New York, would you call it a "revolution" or "terrorism"? I don't even need to guess your answer. Russians view these guys as terrorists. That the RDK is led by a neo-Nazi just isn't that important, at least right now. It is occupying and killing Russian military and damaging equipment. More importantly, it creates doubt about Moscow's ability to protect its own. Worse for Ukraine, it justifies Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Russians, like Americans and Ukrainians, rally around the flag when their country gets attacked. There's no political or military benefit for Ukraine doing this. At best, it's a distraction from Ukraine's struggles and retreats on the frontlines. Ukrainian forces retreated from another town this week by the way...
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 13:24:39 GMT -5
So? First of all, show me the terrorist acts. Aiming artillery at residential neighborhoods with no military targets in sight is terrorism. Civilians in Russia have been killed in these attacks. town this week by the way... My god, you've got some serious chutzpah. Russia has been indiscriminately lobbing missiles into residential buildings just about every night for the past 700 plus nights and we never hear a peep about it from you. And now that your cherished Putin is facing a rebellion on his soil you're suddenly concerned about 'terrorism' and 'civilians'? From last night
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 13:25:32 GMT -5
This happens in Ukraine just about every day but we never hear a peep about it from Soul.
Russian insurgents blow up some ammo dumps in Belgorad and Soul's suddenly concerned about 'civilians'.
And he wonders why people think he has a pro-Putin bias
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 13:27:26 GMT -5
First of all, show me the terrorist acts. The action in Belgorod is, by your own admission, headed by Russian citizens, making it, in fact, a revolution by definition. Greasing bullets in pig fact is hardly an act of terror. Outside nations have often supported such forces. (See; French Navy 1775, off the east coast of the British colonies in North America). Such assistance becomes even more necessary as attack ranges increase in response to improved technology. That the RDK is led by a neo-Nazi just isn't that important, at least right now. It is occupying and killing Russian military and damaging equipment. More importantly, it creates doubt about Moscow's ability to protect its own. This
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 14:00:17 GMT -5
So? First of all, show me the terrorist acts. Aiming artillery at residential neighborhoods with no military targets in sight is terrorism. Civilians in Russia have been killed in these attacks. The action in Belgorod is, by your own admission, headed by Russian citizens, making it, in fact, a revolution by definition. That's a stretch. You're muddling the differences between an uprising and terrorism by ignoring the fact that these guys have no political support within Russia. For example, if American citizens allied with Iran attacked military and civilian targets in New York, would you call it a "revolution" or "terrorism"? I don't even need to guess your answer. Russians view these guys as terrorists. That the RDK is led by a neo-Nazi just isn't that important, at least right now. It is occupying and killing Russian military and damaging equipment. More importantly, it creates doubt about Moscow's ability to protect its own. Worse for Ukraine, it justifies Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Russians, like Americans and Ukrainians, rally around the flag when their country gets attacked. There's no political or military benefit for Ukraine doing this. At best, it's a distraction from Ukraine's struggles and retreats on the frontlines. Ukrainian forces retreated from another town this week by the way... Belgorod was used as a staging area for Putin's attack into Ukraine. It is highly likely that the areas attacked were also staging areas, containing supplies headed to the front. Such sites are legitimate military targets. We don't know what local support they have in Russia. In case you missed it, Russia doesn't exactly have a free press and the repression of less than supportive opinions is a common practice in Russia. Witness the overwhelming support Putin received in the last election. You can't seriously think he received the votes he received, and even those rigged elections were not enough for him. link Regarding your silly example, I would label it as treason and an act of war, using terror tactics, since we know Iran proudly funds such efforts. It justifies absolutely nothing regarding Putin's illegal invasion. These are Russian citizens, launching attacks, in part from Ukraine, a nation Russia invaded. This is Ukraine defending itself.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 14:07:46 GMT -5
Aiming artillery at residential neighborhoods with no military targets in sight is terrorism. Civilians in Russia have been killed in these attacks. town this week by the way... My god, you've got some serious chutzpah. Russia has been indiscriminately lobbing missiles into residential buildings just about every night for the past 700 plus nights and we never hear a peep about it from you. And now that your cherished Putin is facing a rebellion on his soil you're suddenly concerned about 'terrorism' and 'civilians'? I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas.
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 14:10:55 GMT -5
My god, you've got some serious chutzpah. Russia has been indiscriminately lobbing missiles into residential buildings just about every night for the past 700 plus nights and we never hear a peep about it from you. And now that your cherished Putin is facing a rebellion on his soil you're suddenly concerned about 'terrorism' and 'civilians'? I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas. So targeting such sites is OK, I guess, if you are Russian forces, but not if you are Russian revolutionaries? Is that the point you are trying to make?
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 14:15:23 GMT -5
We don't know what local support they have in Russia. We know that Nazis are unpopular in Russia because of WWII. We also know enough to conclude that people in Russia aren't rallying in support of the terrorists. Things are peaceful across most of Russia. These attacks are limited to Russia's borders with Ukraine. It's not an uprising or revolution. No one seriously believes that... Witness the overwhelming support Putin received in the last election. You can't seriously think he received the votes he received, and even those rigged elections were not enough for him I have no idea who Putin's opponent was and assume that anyone brave enough to run against him is controlled opposition. So no, I don't believe 80% of Russians support Putin. But that is irrelevant. If the US is attacked by Americans who are collaborating with China, do you think Republicans would support the terrorists/rebels because they dislike President Biden? Of course not. So why not apply the same logic to Russians? Just because Russia is an authoritarian country doesn't mean that we should assume that most Russians are unpatriotic or wouldn't defend their homeland. To assume that most Russians would support Nazis who are collaborating with Ukraine against their country defies human nature.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 14:17:06 GMT -5
I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas. So targeting such sites is OK, I guess, if you are Russian forces, but not if you are Russian revolutionaries? Is that the point you are trying to make? I'm disagreeing with Joy's use of the word 'indiscriminate'. There's visual proof and other evidence that Ukraine's military uses civilian infrastructure for troop gatherings and hiding military hardware. Again, that's been confirmed by independent sources like Amnesty International.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 14:24:45 GMT -5
I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas. So targeting such sites is OK, I guess, if you are Russian forces, but not if you are Russian revolutionaries? Is that the point you are trying to make? That's exactly the point he's trying to make. You'll recall the hissy fit when Ukraine, facing ammo shortages, started taking cluster munitions from the United States for use on the battlefield. Of course, when Russia was routinely lobbing cluster bombs into civilian areas we never heard a peep.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 14:28:55 GMT -5
My god, you've got some serious chutzpah. Russia has been indiscriminately lobbing missiles into residential buildings just about every night for the past 700 plus nights and we never hear a peep about it from you. And now that your cherished Putin is facing a rebellion on his soil you're suddenly concerned about 'terrorism' and 'civilians'? I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas. What was the military target here? At least 175 km from the front. Again, this has been happening just about every night for the past 740 nights.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 14:41:16 GMT -5
So targeting such sites is OK, I guess, if you are Russian forces, but not if you are Russian revolutionaries? Is that the point you are trying to make? That's exactly the point he's trying to make. You'll recall the hissy fit when Ukraine, facing ammo shortages, started taking cluster munitions from the United States for use on the battlefield. Of course, when Russia was routinely lobbing cluster bombs into civilian areas we never heard a peep. Ukraine has been striking residential areas in Donetsk city with artillery, including cluster munitions, since 2014. Human Rights Watch July 2014 - Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing CiviliansNow Ukraine's Russian Nazi allies are striking residential areas in Belgorod, Russia.
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 14:47:02 GMT -5
We don't know what local support they have in Russia. We know that Nazis are unpopular in Russia because of WWII. We also know enough to conclude that people in Russia aren't rallying in support of the terrorists.
Things are peaceful across most of Russia. These attacks are limited to Russia's borders with Ukraine. It's not an uprising or revolution. No one seriously believes that...
Witness the overwhelming support Putin received in the last election. You can't seriously think he received the votes he received, and even those rigged elections were not enough for him I have no idea who Putin's opponent was and assume that anyone brave enough to run against him is controlled opposition. So no, I don't believe 80% of Russians support Putin. But that is irrelevant. If the US is attacked by Americans who are collaborating with China, do you think Republicans would support the terrorists/rebels because they dislike President Biden? Of course not. So why not apply the same logic to Russians? Just because Russia is an authoritarian country doesn't mean that we should assume that most Russians are unpatriotic or wouldn't defend their homeland. To assume that most Russians would support Nazis who are collaborating with Ukraine against their country defies human nature. The only terrorists are the ones you want to imagine. The leeway you grant Putin and Russia in the tactics they use in their illegal attack on Ukraine is pretty significant soulflower. You argue that (1) we know Russians "aren't rallying in support of the (falsely named) terrorists". How do we know that? There is no free press and technology access by the average Russian citizen outside of the Moscow area is carefully controlled. This fledgling revolution started not very long ago and it takes time for this kind of action to spread, and even more so in a society so highly repressed as is Russia. And it is a BIG place. You argue that you (2) "don't believe 80% of Russians support Putin. But that is irrelevant.". It is absolutely relevant. Controlled opposition is token, at best. This wasn't an election; it was a dictator saying "I'll be sticking around. Thanks." It is also indicative of how tightly controlled is the Russian population. A revolution takes time. (3) "If the US is attacked by Americans who are collaborating with China, do you think Republicans would support the terrorists/rebels because they dislike President Biden? Of course not. So why not apply the same logic to Russians? " is a word salad that would make Kamala proud. (4) I actually assume the average Russian citizen is very patriotic. I have already said in the thread discussing a war with Russia that Russian citizens might well rise up if NATO forces entered Russia. But these aren't NATO forces; their Russians seeking to disturb the status quo. Revolution to rid a country of a despot eager to start a world war is easily defined as patriotic.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 14:49:42 GMT -5
The leeway you grant Putin and Russia in the tactics they use in their illegal attack on Ukraine is pretty significant soulflower. This
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 14:58:40 GMT -5
That's exactly the point he's trying to make. You'll recall the hissy fit when Ukraine, facing ammo shortages, started taking cluster munitions from the United States for use on the battlefield. Of course, when Russia was routinely lobbing cluster bombs into civilian areas we never heard a peep. Ukraine has been striking residential areas in Donetsk city with artillery, including cluster munitions, since 2014. Human Rights Watch July 2014 - Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing CiviliansNow Ukraine's Russian Nazi allies are striking residential areas in Belgorod, Russia. As usual, you to drum up something that 'apparently' happened almost 10 years ago in order to rationalize the heinous Russian actions against Ukraine's civilian population that have been taking place on an almost nightly basis for the past 740 days. Right back at you... Belgorad is the major logistics hub on the supply route for the Russian invasion force in Luhansk oblast. That makes it perfectly justifiable military target. I've seen nothing to suggest that the Russian rebel forces are intentionally targeting civilians - quite the opposite, in the early days of the rebellion, now entering its ninth day, the Russian insurgents actually created an evacuation corridor and urged civilians to evacuate.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 15:03:04 GMT -5
More importantly, it creates doubt about Moscow's ability to protect its own. Remember this? Quite the achievement by the Ukrainian special forces and probably conducted with significant assistance from local resistance.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 15:15:48 GMT -5
You argue that (1) we know Russians "aren't rallying in support of the (falsely named) terrorists". How do we know that? There is no free press and technology access by the average Russian citizen outside of the Moscow area is carefully controlled. This fledgling revolution started not very long ago and it takes time for this kind of action to spread, and even more so in a society so highly repressed as is Russia. And it is a BIG place. Because Russia isn't North Korea Ishmael. Westerners, including members of our news media, routinely visit Russia and report on what's happening there. We're not totally in the dark about what's going on domestically in Russia. Just read the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Washington Post, or other major news outlets for reporting on domestic politics in Russia. You argue that you (2) "don't believe 80% of Russians support Putin. But that is irrelevant.". It is absolutely relevant. Controlled opposition is token, at best. This wasn't an election; it was a dictator saying "I'll be sticking around. Thanks." It is also indicative of how tightly controlled is the Russian population. A revolution takes time. I've made clear that I don't put much stock into the results of Russia's recent election. No argument from me on that. (3) "If the US is attacked by Americans who are collaborating with China, do you think Republicans would support the terrorists/rebels because they dislike President Biden? Of course not. So why not apply the same logic to Russians? " is a word salad that would make Kamala proud. "Surrender post" from you because you have no good response to the point I raised. Again, even citizens in authoritarian countries can be patriotic and won't side with invaders or rebels who are collaborating with adversarial nations. Russia is no exception. (4) I actually assume the average Russian citizen is very patriotic. I have already said in the thread discussing a war with Russia that Russian citizens might well rise up if NATO forces entered Russia. But these aren't NATO forces; their Russians seeking to disturb the status quo. Revolution to rid a country of a despot eager to start a world war is easily defined as patriotic. It doesn't matter that they're Russian the same way it wouldn't matter to you if Americans who are collaborating with Iran attacked military and civilian targets in Maryland. These attacks strengthen Russian resolve to support the war in Ukraine. It's not having the political impact that you and Joy desire.
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 15:25:19 GMT -5
You argue that (1) we know Russians "aren't rallying in support of the (falsely named) terrorists". How do we know that? There is no free press and technology access by the average Russian citizen outside of the Moscow area is carefully controlled. This fledgling revolution started not very long ago and it takes time for this kind of action to spread, and even more so in a society so highly repressed as is Russia. And it is a BIG place. Because Russia isn't North Korea Ishmael. Westerners, including members of our news media, routinely visit Russia and report on what's happening there. We're not totally in the dark about what's going on domestically in Russia. Just read the Wall Street Journal, NY Times, Washington Post, or other major news outlets for reporting on domestic politics in Russia. You argue that you (2) "don't believe 80% of Russians support Putin. But that is irrelevant.". It is absolutely relevant. Controlled opposition is token, at best. This wasn't an election; it was a dictator saying "I'll be sticking around. Thanks." It is also indicative of how tightly controlled is the Russian population. A revolution takes time. I've made clear that I don't put much stock into the results of Russia's recent election. No argument from me on that. (3) "If the US is attacked by Americans who are collaborating with China, do you think Republicans would support the terrorists/rebels because they dislike President Biden? Of course not. So why not apply the same logic to Russians? " is a word salad that would make Kamala proud. "Surrender post" from you because you have no good response to the point I raised. Again, even citizens in authoritarian countries can be patriotic and won't side with invaders or rebels who are collaborating with adversarial nations. Russia is no exception. (4) I actually assume the average Russian citizen is very patriotic. I have already said in the thread discussing a war with Russia that Russian citizens might well rise up if NATO forces entered Russia. But these aren't NATO forces; their Russians seeking to disturb the status quo. Revolution to rid a country of a despot eager to start a world war is easily defined as patriotic. It doesn't matter that they're Russian the same way it wouldn't matter to you if Americans who are collaborating with Iran attacked military and civilian targets in Maryland. These attacks strengthen Russian resolve to support the war in Ukraine. It's not having the political impact that you and Joy desire. Surrender post, my left butt cheek. I'm still trying to figure out what point you think you raised. I don't speak word salad. And, as I have already said, I'm not that interested in the political impact, at least yet. It is a distraction to the Russian field commanders and distractions cause mistakes.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 16:14:40 GMT -5
And, as I have already said, I'm not that interested in the political impact, at least yet. It is a distraction to the Russian field commanders and distractions cause mistakes. Russia is a huge country. The biggest country in the world actually. I believe their border with Ukraine spans 2,000 miles (I may be wrong but it's a long border nevertheless). They have many points of entry for logistical routes into Ukraine. Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. Worse, they justify (for the Russian public) Putin taking more of Ukraine's territory and pushing these groups, Russian nazi militias and Ukrainian forces, farther away from Russian border cities.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 16:35:17 GMT -5
And, as I have already said, I'm not that interested in the political impact, at least yet. It is a distraction to the Russian field commanders and distractions cause mistakes. Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. I know you can't bring yourself to acknowledge anything that may be bad news for Putin but that's actually flat out false. Belgorad is the main supply/logistics route for Russia's forces operating in Luhansk. In addition to the highway there's a key rail link that goes through Belgorad and down into Luhansk which is critical for the Russian forces amassed along the Kremina/Svatove line. The rebels have destroyed several supply depots and Ukraine has hit several oil refineries. It is only a matter of time before they take out the train trestle crossing the Reka Nezhegol River. There's a highway bridge there as well. The Russian military has already shown itself to be lousy at logistics. This operation absolutely complicates their ability to conduct military operations in north eastern Ukraine.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 16:49:40 GMT -5
Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. I know you can't bring yourself to acknowledge anything that may be bad news for Putin but that's actually flat out false. No. I've literally said repeatedly over the last two years that: - Putin miscalculated - Putin is in a quagmire in Ukraine - Russia may not lose the war but they can't get a decisive win either I have no issue with believing that not everything is going well for Russia or Putin. Just as with our disagreements about Trump, the issue is "emphasis" not that I don't think Trump or Putin are generally bad leaders. You think Putin is Hitler and Trump is Satan. I think both are bad leaders but not THAT bad and because of your unhinged temperament, you refuse to tolerate the fact that I don't 100% agree with your unrealistic analysis of war and politics. Belgorad is the main supply/logistics route for Russia's forces operating in Luhansk. In addition to the highway there's a key rail link that goes through Belgorad and down into Luhansk which is critical for the Russian forces amassed along the Kremina/Svatove line. The rebels have destroyed several supply depots and Ukraine has hit several oil refineries. I haven't ruled out that these raids are having an impact at some level. I just don't agree that it's crippling Russia's logistics. They have many routes for entry into Ukraine and there's no evidence of operational changes for Russia forces in Ukraine. They still have the initiative. The Russian military has already shown itself to be lousy at logistics. This operation absolutely complicates their ability to conduct military operations in north eastern Ukraine. FWIW, Most military analysts say the Russians have overcome the logistical problems that plagued their operations during the first few months of the war in 2022. You're brain is stuck in the glory of 2022 and you haven't yet accepted the reality that the Russians have learned from their mistakes and improved their tactics. That's why they have the initiative right now while Ukrainian forces are retreating from one village after another.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 17:24:10 GMT -5
I know you can't bring yourself to acknowledge anything that may be bad news for Putin but that's actually flat out false. They have many routes for entry into Ukraine and there's no evidence of operational changes for Russia forces in Ukraine. Wishful thinking on your part. They still have the initiative. Your brain is stuck in the glory of 2022 and you haven't yet accepted the reality that the Russians have learned from their mistakes and improved their tactics. That's why they have the initiative right now while Ukrainian forces are retreating from one village after another. They still have the initiative. Really? After losing tens of thousands of troops killed and wounded to take the ruble that was once Avdiivka back in February, Russia was able to secure a few more villages and then their advance has basically ground to a halt. Meanwhile, we're at or we just passed the most dire situation for Ukraine in terms of ammunition as the Biden administration announced a $300 million stop gap aid package and the EU, under the leadership of the Czech Republic, has begun shipping what will ultimately total more than 1 million 155mm artillery shells. That's not counting the various military aid packages that various European countries have announced over the past three weeks. If Speaker Johnson is honest about his commitment to bring Ukrainian aid to the House Floor after this funding bill, we could see the steady flow of US weapons start back up as soon as the third week of April. By the way, I'm the one routinely reposting articles from 2014 or 2022. Everything I have posted above is from the last week. I think you're projecting.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 17:28:39 GMT -5
Maybe Soulflower can tell us the military significance of this apartment complex.
Not the first time Russia has hurled missiles into residential areas in this small city more than 100 kilometers away from the Dnipro River and Russian positions on that river's opposite bank.
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Post by ishmael on Mar 21, 2024 17:41:07 GMT -5
And, as I have already said, I'm not that interested in the political impact, at least yet. It is a distraction to the Russian field commanders and distractions cause mistakes. Russia is a huge country. The biggest country in the world actually. I believe their border with Ukraine spans 2,000 miles (I may be wrong but it's a long border nevertheless). They have many points of entry for logistical routes into Ukraine. Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. Worse, they justify (for the Russian public) Putin taking more of Ukraine's territory and pushing these groups, Russian nazi militias and Ukrainian forces, farther away from Russian border cities. You are factually incorrect here. Tactics can best be understood as small unit evolutions. IVO the increased threat to Russian forces and sites, any battlefield commander worthy of the name has stepped up physical security. Physical security requires unit level participation, units that cannot be used on the front lines. Thus, tactical capability and options are reduced. I would be surprised if this has not impacted operational level as well. Operational is felt when company sized units, think 100 people or so, are removed from the combat mission. Depending on the size and criticality of the site being secured, whole company-sized units may well be taken off the front line. This is particularly true in supply depots, as they tend to be large, spread out and have multiple access points. Bolgorod was a supply center for the initial invasion and likely fills that role today, as it is also a critical transportation hub. The only question really is if it impacts at the strategic level. It is difficult to discern what Putin's specific strategic goals are here, so I cannot opine about that level yet, but if there is a change in the logistics sites, there will definitely be a change as to strategic objectives as well.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 21, 2024 17:54:28 GMT -5
Russia is a huge country. The biggest country in the world actually. I believe their border with Ukraine spans 2,000 miles (I may be wrong but it's a long border nevertheless). They have many points of entry for logistical routes into Ukraine. Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. Worse, they justify (for the Russian public) Putin taking more of Ukraine's territory and pushing these groups, Russian nazi militias and Ukrainian forces, farther away from Russian border cities. You are factually incorrect here. Tactics can best be understood as small unit evolutions. IVO the increased threat to Russian forces and sites, any battlefield commander worthy of the name has stepped up physical security. Physical security requires unit level participation, units that cannot be used on the front lines. Thus, tactical capability and options are reduced. I would be surprised if this has not impacted operational level as well. Operational is felt when company sized units, think 100 people or so, are removed from the combat mission. Depending on the size and criticality of the site being secured, whole company-sized units may well be taken off the front line. This is particularly true in supply depots, as they tend to be large, spread out and have multiple access points. Bolgorod was a supply center for the initial invasion and likely fills that role today, as it is also a critical transportation hub. The only question really is if it impacts at the strategic level. It is difficult to discern what Putin's specific strategic goals are here, so I cannot opine about that level yet, but if there is a change in the logistics sites, there will definitely be a change as to strategic objectives as well. Ishmael, not sure if you're aware but these Russian exile nazis did the same exact thing last May as the Vice News article I linked earlier noted. It flamed out after a few days/weeks and I expect that to happen again in this recent flareup. These attacks get some headlines and are useful to some extent as a distraction but last summer's raids by these militias had no positive impact at all for Ukraine's summer counteroffensive which ended up being a huge failure for Ukraine and her western backers. Ukrainian forces retreated from another town this week so I'm still not seeing any signs that these raids in Russia's border towns are significantly affecting things on the frontlines in Ukraine. Russia Captures Another Village In Eastern Ukraine, Second This WeekBut we've gone a little off course. My original point is that there's no evidence that these Russian nazis who are collaborating with Ukraine have any real support in Russia. Hence why, I don't think the terms "rebellion" or "uprising" apply. At best, they can be described as Russian exile-led cross-border raids. At worst, "terror attacks" due to the impact on Russian civilians. Terrorists or insurgents who collaborate with adversaries typically aren't greeted as liberators and don't usually gain political support for their cause. Again, regardless of how Russians really feel about Putin (election results aside), Russian nationalism and patriotism are real factors in Russian politics. They're not going to side with Russians who are collaborating with Ukraine. In contrast, the Wagner mutiny last summer had more of a chance of gaining support (in Russia) because Wagner fighters were viewed as war heroes in Russia.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 21, 2024 20:27:52 GMT -5
Russia is a huge country. The biggest country in the world actually. I believe their border with Ukraine spans 2,000 miles (I may be wrong but it's a long border nevertheless). They have many points of entry for logistical routes into Ukraine. Therefore, these raids near their border with Ukraine do nothing tactically to impact Russia's military operations in Ukraine. Worse, they justify (for the Russian public) Putin taking more of Ukraine's territory and pushing these groups, Russian nazi militias and Ukrainian forces, farther away from Russian border cities. You are factually incorrect here. Tactics can best be understood as small unit evolutions. IVO the increased threat to Russian forces and sites, any battlefield commander worthy of the name has stepped up physical security. Physical security requires unit level participation, units that cannot be used on the front lines. Thus, tactical capability and options are reduced. I would be surprised if this has not impacted operational level as well. Operational is felt when company sized units, think 100 people or so, are removed from the combat mission. Depending on the size and criticality of the site being secured, whole company-sized units may well be taken off the front line. This is particularly true in supply depots, as they tend to be large, spread out and have multiple access points. Bolgorod was a supply center for the initial invasion and likely fills that role today, as it is also a critical transportation hub. The only question really is if it impacts at the strategic level. It is difficult to discern what Putin's specific strategic goals are here, so I cannot opine about that level yet, but if there is a change in the logistics sites, there will definitely be a change as to strategic objectives as well. For weeks and months we've been hearing that Russia was amassing troops along the Kremina/Svatove line (the p-66 highway) and were gearing up for a 'major' offensive against Kupyansk, which if captured, would actually open the door to the Russians advancing on Kharkiv. We've seen some small scale efforts to attack in that direction and some modest advances but they've yet to be able to put anything together of any significance. These positions are supplied and supported straight from Belgorad. No objective person can look at what these rebels are doing in Kursk/Belgorad and not see how it impacts Russian deployments and operations. At the very least, it is going to require the Russian military to divert time and attention to clearing the enemy out of their rear area. And again, if I am a unit or battalion commander on that line, I'm more worried about what's behind me than I am what's in front of me. That's no way to win a war.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 28, 2024 2:24:33 GMT -5
My god, you've got some serious chutzpah. Russia has been indiscriminately lobbing missiles into residential buildings just about every night for the past 700 plus nights and we never hear a peep about it from you. And now that your cherished Putin is facing a rebellion on his soil you're suddenly concerned about 'terrorism' and 'civilians'? I disagree that it's "indiscriminate" because even the Washington Post and Amnesty International confirmed that Ukrainian's armed forces post up or place military hardware in civilian/residential areas. I wonder what the military target was here or here Neither of these apartment blocks in kharkiv or Mykolaiv are anywhere near the front lines
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Post by soulflower on May 5, 2024 9:06:40 GMT -5
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