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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:25:49 GMT -5
Wow. This has nothing to do with a "liberal catholic" or any other kind of catholic. You made an incorrect statement about catholic dogma that I challenged. If you don't want to be challenged on a patently inaccurate statement, don't make them. Wow! If you can't, or won't, address the original points I posed without tap dancing around them, it's best to ignore them. Your points were factually incorrect, the comments of someone talking about a religious dogma he neither knows nor understands. One might as well argue that water is dry. The only "tap dancing" being done is an attempt to be less hurtful in describing your lack of knowledge.
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Post by WKDWZD on Aug 12, 2019 7:31:36 GMT -5
Wow! If you can't, or won't, address the original points I posed without tap dancing around them, it's best to ignore them. Your points were factually incorrect, the comments of someone talking about a religious dogma he neither knows nor understands. One might as well argue that water is dry. The only "tap dancing" being done is an attempt to be less hurtful in describing your lack of knowledge. So cut the crap, stand front and centre and make a declaration, do YOU believe that the world was created in 6 days, or do YOU accept that it has been around for 4.5 billion years, give or take?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:41:19 GMT -5
Your points were factually incorrect, the comments of someone talking about a religious dogma he neither knows nor understands. One might as well argue that water is dry. The only "tap dancing" being done is an attempt to be less hurtful in describing your lack of knowledge. So cut the crap, stand front and centre and make a declaration, do YOU believe that the world was created in 6 days, or do YOU accept that it has been around for 4.5 billion years, give or take? Actually, I thought Big Bang occurred closer to 13B years ago. I think you're off by a bit, as normal. Now, tell me how many hours were in a day 13B years ago. Tell me how else the writers of the OT books should have tried to explain it.
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Post by WKDWZD on Aug 12, 2019 8:11:58 GMT -5
So cut the crap, stand front and centre and make a declaration, do YOU believe that the world was created in 6 days, or do YOU accept that it has been around for 4.5 billion years, give or take? Actually, I thought Big Bang occurred closer to 13B years ago. I think you're off by a bit, as normal. Now, tell me how many hours were in a day 13B years ago. Tell me how else the writers of the OT books should have tried to explain it. Another classic non-answer (let's call that one a soft shoe shuffle). Actually old son, 'tis you, not me that is "off by a , bit, as normal". I said the world (ie Earth 4.5 billion years old) and apparently built on day #1, not the universe (much older) and apparently built on day #4. However your failed attempted insult notwithstanding, you still have not answered my question. Which explanation do you go with? I tell you what, don't bother, I'll let you off the hook - you wont give a direct answer anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 8:30:29 GMT -5
Actually, I thought Big Bang occurred closer to 13B years ago. I think you're off by a bit, as normal. Now, tell me how many hours were in a day 13B years ago. Tell me how else the writers of the OT books should have tried to explain it. Another classic non-answer (let's call that one a soft shoe shuffle). Actually old son, 'tis you, not me that is "off by a , bit, as normal". I said the world (ie Earth 4.5 billion years old), not the universe (much older). However your failed attempted insult notwithstanding, you still have not answered my question. Which explanation do you go with? I tell you what, don't bother, I'll let you off the hook - you wont give a direct answer anyway. First, don't ever call me son again. You're correct. I was talking the universe. I believe the earth is billions of years old. I believe the creation of the universe is still ongoing, so, obviously, it's billions of years old. Is that a direct enough answer for you? Such a position in no way conflicts with Catholic dogma, rendering your earlier post incorrect, as I stated.
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Post by WKDWZD on Aug 12, 2019 8:55:07 GMT -5
Another classic non-answer (let's call that one a soft shoe shuffle). Actually old son, 'tis you, not me that is "off by a , bit, as normal". I said the world (ie Earth 4.5 billion years old), not the universe (much older). However your failed attempted insult notwithstanding, you still have not answered my question. Which explanation do you go with? I tell you what, don't bother, I'll let you off the hook - you wont give a direct answer anyway. First, don't ever call me son again. You're correct. I was talking the universe. I believe the earth is billions of years old. I believe the creation of the universe is still ongoing, so, obviously, it's billions of years old. Is that a direct enough answer for you? Such a position in no way conflicts with Catholic dogma, rendering your earlier post incorrect, as I stated. Dude, you need to chill. 'old son' is not a perjorative or insult, quite the opposite in fact, still, if it's going to make you all shirty, I'll try to avoid using it (in your case) again. As I mentioned in my edit, the earth, apparently. was created on Day #1 whereas the rest of the Universe was created on Day #4. a slight discrepancy of logic, don't you think? The funny thing is, that I don't see a problem with someone believing both. All they have to do is wonder at the beauty of nature, the marvel of natural selection and evolution and then say, yes well God created the Big Bang and let the physics do the rest. Of course that would either mean a re-write of Genisis or better yet,maybe, an abandonment ... Somehow I don't think that any church is up to doing that , well not for another millennium or so, more's the pity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:15:27 GMT -5
First, don't ever call me son again. You're correct. I was talking the universe. I believe the earth is billions of years old. I believe the creation of the universe is still ongoing, so, obviously, it's billions of years old. Is that a direct enough answer for you? Such a position in no way conflicts with Catholic dogma, rendering your earlier post incorrect, as I stated. Dude, you need to chill. 'old son' is not a perjorative or insult, quite the opposite in fact, still, if it's going to make you all shirty, I'll try to avoid using it (in your case) again. As I mentioned in my edit, the earth, apparently. was created on Day #1 whereas the rest of the Universe was created on Day #4. a slight discrepancy of logic, don't you think? The funny thing is, that I don't see a problem with someone believing both. All they have to do is wonder at the beauty of nature, the marvel of natural selection and evolution and then say, yes well God created the Big Bang and let the physics do the rest. Of course that would either mean a re-write of Genisis or better yet,maybe, an abandonment ... Somehow I don't think that any church is up to doing that , well not for another millennium or so, more's the pity. Once again, you are incorrect. Genesis begins "In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth..." meaning, of course, that both were created concurrently. Genesis doesn't describe the creation of the earth, it describes the creation and effects subsequent to the creation of the earth; the very physics you mention. Read it, but do so with an open mind.
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Post by WKDWZD on Aug 12, 2019 9:58:39 GMT -5
Dude, you need to chill. 'old son' is not a perjorative or insult, quite the opposite in fact, still, if it's going to make you all shirty, I'll try to avoid using it (in your case) again. As I mentioned in my edit, the earth, apparently. was created on Day #1 whereas the rest of the Universe was created on Day #4. a slight discrepancy of logic, don't you think? The funny thing is, that I don't see a problem with someone believing both. All they have to do is wonder at the beauty of nature, the marvel of natural selection and evolution and then say, yes well God created the Big Bang and let the physics do the rest. Of course that would either mean a re-write of Genisis or better yet,maybe, an abandonment ... Somehow I don't think that any church is up to doing that , well not for another millennium or so, more's the pity. Once again, you are incorrect. Genesis begins "In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth..." meaning, of course, that both were created concurrently. Genesis doesn't describe the creation of the earth, it describes the creation and effects subsequent to the creation of the earth; the very physics you mention. Read it, but do so with an open mind. First off, don't keep telling me that I am incorrect just because I challenge your arrogant religious assumptions, further more, don't tell me to have an open mind when it is your own that has been conditioned by your religious beliefs.
Regarding the bible, I have read it probably as much as you, well, certainly the Pentateuch anyway.
For one, the 'heavens' and the earth ... how many heavens are there. which one has all the saints in it?
You have to get to verse 14 before God said "Let there be lights in the vault ..." That was Day or #4, after:
Day or #1. Verse 1-5 "God created the heavens and the Earth". I assume this to mean the earth (world)Day or #2. Verse 6-8 God created the sky
Day or #3 verses 9-13 God got around to creating the land and the oceans, making the land fertile and creating "evening and morning"
Day or #4 verses14-19 God put "lights in the vault sky to separate day from night". He put the Sun and the moon into place and also made the stars (verse 16) 'And there was evening and there was morning' (again) I assume this to mean the Universe.I grew up being taught the religious interpretation in Sunday school. Later in adult life I read the Pentateuch again literally, so I have seen both sides of the debate. My view is the open minded one motr, not yours.
Question my belief if you must but don't question my reading skills and comprehension. Read your bible your way, the way of your bible studies and I'll read it my way, do not tell me that I am wrong and you are right.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 13:35:46 GMT -5
it's not a science text WKDWZD, it's the story of creation told to illiterate shepherds and subsistence farmers.
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