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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 8, 2023 23:23:11 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 10, 2023 16:07:38 GMT -5
Quite the photo
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 10, 2023 16:09:24 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 16:09:30 GMT -5
Folks in these countries have massively impressive protests. Unfortunately, often at great risk.
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Post by Ranger John on Mar 10, 2023 19:12:11 GMT -5
With so much of Russia's military tied up in Ukraine... and clearly still trying to capture 1 small city 6 months later, I have to think at some point there's either going to be an internal uprising in Russia, or one of its neighbors will get opportunistic.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 11, 2023 0:04:54 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 11, 2023 8:06:51 GMT -5
Folks in these countries have massively impressive protests. Unfortunately, often at great risk. Georgia is a democracy. It sounds like you’re implying that they don’t have a representative government: Georgia is a representative democratic parliamentary republic, with the President as the largely ceremonial head of state, and Prime Minister as the head of government. The executive branch of power is made up of the Cabinet of Georgia.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)The government has killed the Bill that led to the protests. Not sure if that will satisfy the protesters.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 11, 2023 9:06:22 GMT -5
“The draft bill, which passed its first reading in the Georgian parliament with a comfortable 76-13 majority on Tuesday evening, would require all organizations which receive more than 20 percent of their funding from abroad to register as “foreign agents,” or face big fines.”How is their proposed law different from our FARA regulations? Requiring groups that receive significant funding from foreigners to register as foreign agents is intended to limit foreign meddling in their politics. Their parliament overwhelmingly passed the Bill. What’s the problem with that?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 11, 2023 13:25:06 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 11, 2023 14:58:45 GMT -5
Russia says the sky is blue.
If you agree, you’re promoting Russian talking points 😂 Seriously, do you want to answer the question? What problem do you have with the proposed legislation? It sounds like our FARA law. Does Georgia not have the Right to try to keep Russia and the CIA from meddling in their domestic affairs? Some of these countries are tired of being used as proxies for the West and Russia.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 11, 2023 15:17:25 GMT -5
Russia says the sky is blue.
If you agree, you’re promoting Russian talking points 😂 Seriously, do you want to answer the question? What problem do you have with the proposed legislation? It sounds like our FARA law. Does Georgia not have the Right to try to keep Russia and the CIA from meddling in their domestic affairs? Some of these countries are tired of being used as proxies for the West and Russia. I just find it interesting how often you seem to come out with these points shortly after the Kremlin hits on the same themes. Beyond that, it strikes me that the people of Georgia took to the streets exactly because they are tired of Russia meddling in their affairs. I really don't know enough about the internal politics of Georgia to comment further.
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Post by soulflower on Mar 11, 2023 15:27:20 GMT -5
Russia says the sky is blue.
If you agree, you’re promoting Russian talking points 😂 Seriously, do you want to answer the question? What problem do you have with the proposed legislation? It sounds like our FARA law. Does Georgia not have the Right to try to keep Russia and the CIA from meddling in their domestic affairs? Some of these countries are tired of being used as proxies for the West and Russia. I just find it interesting how often you seem to come out with these points shortly after the Kremlin hits on the same themes. I hadn’t read that before I saw your link so I have no idea what you’re talking about. I simply asked why you oppose the law. Beyond that, it strikes me that the people of Georgia took to the streets exactly because they are tired of Russia meddling in their affairs.I really don't know enough about the internal politics of Georgia to comment further. They’re protesting against a law intended to limit foreign meddling in their affairs. What’s wrong with requiring organizations that receive foreign aid to to register as foreign agents? We do it here in the US. No one is protesting against FARA here. Lots of countries besides Russia have these kinds of laws (If the link in your OP accurately describes the law) and I don’t think anyone would describe the Georgian government as “pro-Russian”.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 11, 2023 15:45:11 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 11, 2023 22:33:33 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 12, 2023 14:26:09 GMT -5
Georgia’s Prime Minister told Ukraine’s President Zelensky to mind his own affairs. Interesting: Georgian PM slams Zelenskyy for responding “destructive rally” in Tbilisiagenda.ge/en/news/2023/1009
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 12, 2023 23:52:49 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 13, 2023 8:50:18 GMT -5
While Russia blames the West for the anti-government protests in Georgia, the West blames Russia for the anti-government protests in Moldova. Just another day in eastern Europe. FWIW, the people of Moldova are protesting over economic concerns (as well as Moldova's role in the Ukraine war) while the people of Georgia are protesting over a law that was intended to limit foreign meddling. Dozens arrested at protests against govt in MoldovaSome 4,500 protesters, decrying high prices, massed in the capital Chisinau on Sunday, but police in riot gear set up roadblocks with buses to confine them to a district far from government buildings.
The protest slogan was “We ask the government to pay our bills”.
Participants spoke of the high cost of living and blamed the government and President Sandu for not doing enough to help them or for not listening to their complaints.
People shouted, “Down with the dictatorship” and “Down with Maia Sandu”.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 13, 2023 12:45:48 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 13, 2023 13:23:24 GMT -5
FWIW, the current government in Georgia is a democracy and has been supporting Ukraine throughout the war. So it's bizarre to see some pro-Ukraine accounts on Twitter supporting regime change in Georgia.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 13, 2023 13:39:10 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 13, 2023 14:00:31 GMT -5
From the same article: The immediate cause of the turmoil in Tbilisi for the past two days was the preliminary approval on Tuesday by Parliament of an innocuous-sounding draft law “on transparency and foreign influence.” It demanded that nongovernmental groups and news media outlets that receive more than 20 percent of their funding from a “foreign power” register as “agents of foreign influence.” Violators would incur a hefty fine.The Georgian government, firmly controlled by the Georgian Dream party, insisted that the legislation simply aimed to promote greater openness about foreign funding and was inspired by an American law dating back to 1938.
But protesters — and also the Georgian president — denounced it as a stealthy effort to smuggle into Georgia one of the most heavy-handed tools of Putinism and, in the process, sabotage the country’s already stalled efforts to join the European Union.“No to Russian law! No to Russian government in Georgia,” protesters chanted on Wednesday as they streamed through the center of Tbilisi and some tried to storm the Parliament building.------------------------ Joy, what do you disagree with about the proposed law? Lots of countries besides Russia have laws that require individuals and organizations to register as foreign agents. In the US, we have FARA: "In 1938, Congress enacted the Foreign Agents Registration Act ("FARA"), requiring “foreign agents” to register with the Attorney General. As amended over the years, it applies broadly to anyone who acts on behalf of a “foreign principal” to, among other things, influence U.S. policy or public opinion."Canada recently passed a similar law: Canada Will Introduce A Foreign Influence Transparency Registry"To enhance foreign influence transparency and address malign foreign influence, the Government of Canada will introduce a registry to complement existing legislative tools and authorities. A foreign influence registry could impose strict disclosure requirements for individuals and entities acting on behalf of foreign principals for influence purposes. If individuals or entities acting on behalf of foreign principals fail to register, they could face significant administrative and/or criminal penalties. The rules may not only apply to Canadian citizens, but could capture any individual or entity undertaking registrable activities in Canada or towards Canadians, at the direction of a foreign principal. This could include, for example, permanent residents, or foreign residents residing in Canada.
To ensure there is compliance with such measures, as well as to enhance transparency and awareness of malign foreign influence in Canada, the government could require individuals or entities to publicly register. To implement a register and oversee the overall administration of the law, an approach to governance will need to be designed. The outcomes of this consultation process will help the Government determine how best to do this."
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 13, 2023 14:21:11 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Mar 13, 2023 14:32:55 GMT -5
So you're against Georgia requiring that activists and organizations who get money from foreign countries like Russia register as foreign agents? If the proud Boys were being financed by Russian oligarchs, wouldn't you want them to be transparent about it? The argument that "the law is bad because Russia has a similar law" is intellectually dishonest given that the US, Canada, and many other countries have similar laws.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Mar 13, 2023 16:27:31 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 15, 2024 12:45:51 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 15, 2024 13:03:22 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Apr 15, 2024 13:07:26 GMT -5
"Georgian Dream said this month that it would reintroduce legislation requiring organisations that accept funds from abroad to register as foreign agents or face fines"
How is that any different from the FARA law we have here in the US?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 15, 2024 13:21:59 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 15, 2024 13:29:23 GMT -5
Soon we're going to start hearing how Georgia and Russia have a 'shared history and culture'
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Post by soulflower on Apr 15, 2024 13:36:17 GMT -5
This is the thuggish behavior that Joy is defending. He’s lost his sense of what “democracy” means:
If people in Georgia’s parliament disagree with the legislation, they should vote against it.
But political violence in democratic countries should not be condoned.
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