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Post by pickle20 on Nov 30, 2023 10:24:10 GMT -5
You crack me up. Mister individual freedom and equality. Who is an apologist for the CSA. Alrighty!! That's right and I don't even know what an apologist is. I only apologize for things I have done. I oppose their view on slavery but every people deserve a government of their own choosing. It's as simple as that. Your reasoning makes no sense. A government of their own choosing was based on slavery, which you say you are against. Something doesn't add up and never has.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 10:26:07 GMT -5
Not at all. I have always advocated equality and equal treatment for everyone. I still don't fit into that little box you keep trying to put me in. The funny thing is you are what you claim you hate. Pitiful.Yes you are but keep lying to yourself about yourself but if you want others to believe you, you should reword a lot, and I mean a lot of your posts esp CW posts How arrogant can you be? Trying to tell me what I believe. I have always advocated for equality under the law for everyone. If you read my posts like you claim you would know that. You have a very simple minded view of things especially history. Pathetic.
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 30, 2023 10:29:39 GMT -5
You crack me up. Mister individual freedom and equality. Who is an apologist for the CSA. Alrighty!! That's right and I don't even know what an apologist is. I only apologize for things I have done. I oppose their view on slavery but every people deserve a government of their own choosing. It's as simple as that. No. If you enslave other people, you forfeit your right to freedom.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 10:29:40 GMT -5
That's right and I don't even know what an apologist is. I only apologize for things I have done. I oppose their view on slavery but every people deserve a government of their own choosing. It's as simple as that. Your reasoning makes no sense. A government of their own choosing was based on slavery, which you say you are against. Something doesn't add up and never has. It doesn't matter why they seceded, they have the right to a government of their choice regardless of why they wanted a different government. The right doesn't come with restrictions on motive. That's all I am going to say about this because I refuse to let you all turn this into a CW thread. That horse has been beaten to death here.
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 30, 2023 10:32:19 GMT -5
Your reasoning makes no sense. A government of their own choosing was based on slavery, which you say you are against. Something doesn't add up and never has. It doesn't matter why they seceded, they have the right to a government of their choice regardless of why they wanted a different government. The right doesn't come with restrictions on motive. That's all I am going to say about this because I refuse to let you all turn this into a CW thread. That horse has been beaten to death here. Then you lack the ability to determine right from wrong, good from evil, and would let brutal dictatorships foster at the expense of the people they govern, or own. It makes zero sense and never has. But it does explain your affinity for Trump.
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 30, 2023 10:38:12 GMT -5
Your reasoning makes no sense. A government of their own choosing was based on slavery, which you say you are against. Something doesn't add up and never has. It doesn't matter why they seceded, they have the right to a government of their choice regardless of why they wanted a different government. The right doesn't come with restrictions on motive. That's all I am going to say about this because I refuse to let you all turn this into a CW thread. That horse has been beaten to death here. Self determination absolutely comes with restrictions! The right clearly mandates ALL people have the right to self determination!! The CSA didn't align with that--it's not a cafeteria thing.
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Post by mrsmlh on Nov 30, 2023 10:51:34 GMT -5
Yes you are but keep lying to yourself about yourself but if you want others to believe you, you should reword a lot, and I mean a lot of your posts esp CW posts How arrogant can you be? Trying to tell me what I believe. I have always advocated for equality under the law for everyone. If you read my posts like you claim you would know that. You have a very simple minded view of things especially history. Pathetic. How can you say that you are for people to have the government of their choosing and then in the same breath believe that the CSA was good when their main position in government was the enslavement of other people and denying them a government of their choosing? Either you are for the CSA or you are for equality and freedom to choose your own government but you cannot be for both. Not quite as arrogant as you! and yes you are pathetic still clinging to that lost cause myth.
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Post by guido2 on Nov 30, 2023 15:14:58 GMT -5
OOOOOkkkkkaayyyy here we go. Samo Samo Q.E.D. You're claiming quod erat demonstrandum ? 😂🤣 Right church wrong pew on your part.
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Post by guido2 on Nov 30, 2023 15:25:52 GMT -5
REALLY?So I guess that means......... -that you believe a women has the ability to control their body -that you believe that LGBTIQA+ should be able to live their lives without all the BS. -that Blacks are equal -that Hispanics are equal -that Asians are equal -that all people, even people like Trump should be susceptible to the same laws and processes that the rest of us are subject to. Such as, you open you yap to threaten the judicary, or attempt to corrupt a jury pool or intimidate witnesses that you sorry azz goes to jail. PERIOD. -I got a ton of etcetera's. THAT, my "friend" is but a part of what freedom is. If you disagree.....frankly, your thoughts and opinions are worth a flea fart in the wind. Yes to all of those. I have always believed that. Trying to put me in one of those little boxes again? Never works. Learn something for once in your life. So this should be easy for you. -OK, then renounce all of what is now the GOP aka MAGA. -Say out loud that you think the everything that Trump does is against all of the things I listed. -Admit there was a insurrection, instigated and promoted by Trump to keep himself as president. -Tell us all, how much you are disgusted by Trumps written and verbal plans to use the DOJ as a weapon against any and all that he knows and/or perceives slighted him or worse, tried (ing) to put him behind bars. -Express concern about Trumps plan to fire all present employees of the Federal Government and replace them with those loyal to him. -State loudly, that Trump is planning to use the military to put down protests or anything else that might threaten his position as president as he moves it to being a king. Thats for starters. So, sorry, the above is all tied to 'freedom'. The ball is in your court. What say you?
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Post by guido2 on Nov 30, 2023 15:42:30 GMT -5
I’ve posted polls that show that most voters don’t want Trump or Biden. While it’s true that most Dems prefer someone other than Biden, my point still stands with regards to this forum. I’ve asked someone here what criticisms of Biden they consider to be legit or in good faith. I never got an answer. So apparently, some think Biden is infallible… Did a terrible job leaving Afghanistan. Gone too easy on Bibi. This ministry of truth nonsense. On balance doing a good job. And basing the notion that people on this forum think Biden is infallible on asking one poster a question and not getting an answer? Seriously? Such self importance. By the lines 1- Seems everybody forgets that Trump, signed the agreement, that Trump left no plan, that Trump delayed the transfer of power to Biden as long as he could....like months. You can't tell me that Biden could have done a better job if he had access to the Trump 'details' sooner by months. 2- I agree he has been too easy on Bibi. But when you consider that Israel is probably the only country in the ME that we can really rely on for years now. I can see how he has to tread lightly. 3-I don't think there is any real question around "on balance" here, consider all the programs/funds he has brought to ACTUALLY HELP the middle class, HOW MANY red states are getting injections of funding for all sorts of good paying jobs. Unemployment is at the lowest level in decades. Inflation is being tamed and the US inflation rate is well below the rest of the world. Oh yeah and how about getting the show on the road to actually get covid under control. Granted ..... grudgingly..... Trump got big pharm going to come up with a vaccine. Some forget that IHO it was just a cold. Remember? 4- Is Biden infallible, absolutely not. And if you ask any Dem voter most will agree with that statement. They know he is not perfect, but his adminstration is getting things done. ACTUALLY DONE! Versus the previous that just sat around an bytched and moaned and didn't do jack except to look for ways to blame the Dems for their screw ups. Ok, I'm done. Bar-keep, another beer please. 😉😄
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 16:30:51 GMT -5
Yes to all of those. I have always believed that. Trying to put me in one of those little boxes again? Never works. Learn something for once in your life. So this should be easy for you. -OK, then renounce all of what is now the GOP aka MAGA. -Say out loud that you think the everything that Trump does is against all of the things I listed. -Admit there was a insurrection, instigated and promoted by Trump to keep himself as president. -Tell us all, how much you are disgusted by Trumps written and verbal plans to use the DOJ as a weapon against any and all that he knows and/or perceives slighted him or worse, tried (ing) to put him behind bars. -Express concern about Trumps plan to fire all present employees of the Federal Government and replace them with those loyal to him. -State loudly, that Trump is planning to use the military to put down protests or anything else that might threaten his position as president as he moves it to being a king. Thats for starters. So, sorry, the above is all tied to 'freedom'. The ball is in your court. What say you? You believe a bunch of lies. I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 16:32:40 GMT -5
It doesn't matter why they seceded, they have the right to a government of their choice regardless of why they wanted a different government. The right doesn't come with restrictions on motive. That's all I am going to say about this because I refuse to let you all turn this into a CW thread. That horse has been beaten to death here. Then you lack the ability to determine right from wrong, good from evil, and would let brutal dictatorships foster at the expense of the people they govern, or own. It makes zero sense and never has. But it does explain your affinity for Trump. Nonsense. Like I said, I have no affinity for Trump other than he is the lefts worst nightmare.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 16:36:49 GMT -5
It doesn't matter why they seceded, they have the right to a government of their choice regardless of why they wanted a different government. The right doesn't come with restrictions on motive. That's all I am going to say about this because I refuse to let you all turn this into a CW thread. That horse has been beaten to death here. Self determination absolutely comes with restrictions! The right clearly mandates ALL people have the right to self determination!! The CSA didn't align with that--it's not a cafeteria thing. The people did exercise their right to a government of their choosing by the methods in place at the time. If you are going to claim that anything that women and slaves didn't get to vote on is invalid then nothing done by the government prior to women getting the vote is valid by that logic.
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Post by vosa on Nov 30, 2023 16:38:53 GMT -5
You're claiming quod erat demonstrandum ? 😂🤣 Right church wrong pew on your part. Having exhausted your repertoire of scatological references you now begin with a recitation from your cliche collection. And your inclusion of a song and dance routine fits nicely into your M.O since most of your posts are nothing more than a song and dance routine.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 16:41:09 GMT -5
How arrogant can you be? Trying to tell me what I believe. I have always advocated for equality under the law for everyone. If you read my posts like you claim you would know that. You have a very simple minded view of things especially history. Pathetic. How can you say that you are for people to have the government of their choosing and then in the same breath believe that the CSA was good when their main position in government was the enslavement of other people and denying them a government of their choosing? Either you are for the CSA or you are for equality and freedom to choose your own government but you cannot be for both. Not quite as arrogant as you! and yes you are pathetic still clinging to that lost cause myth. I said I believe the CSA had a right to exist I didn't say everything they wanted was good. Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth. The CSA is a historical entity that no longer exists, I am neither for it or against it. Its history. I absolutely am an advocate for individual freedom and equality under the law and the right of a people to a government of their choice. That is why I hate the left.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 16:42:15 GMT -5
Yes to all of those. I have always believed that. Trying to put me in one of those little boxes again? Never works. Learn something for once in your life. So this should be easy for you. -OK, then renounce all of what is now the GOP aka MAGA. -Say out loud that you think the everything that Trump does is against all of the things I listed. -Admit there was a insurrection, instigated and promoted by Trump to keep himself as president. -Tell us all, how much you are disgusted by Trumps written and verbal plans to use the DOJ as a weapon against any and all that he knows and/or perceives slighted him or worse, tried (ing) to put him behind bars. -Express concern about Trumps plan to fire all present employees of the Federal Government and replace them with those loyal to him. -State loudly, that Trump is planning to use the military to put down protests or anything else that might threaten his position as president as he moves it to being a king. Thats for starters. So, sorry, the above is all tied to 'freedom'. The ball is in your court. What say you? Why should I confirm your delusions and beliefs in lies?
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 30, 2023 16:48:37 GMT -5
Then you lack the ability to determine right from wrong, good from evil, and would let brutal dictatorships foster at the expense of the people they govern, or own. It makes zero sense and never has. But it does explain your affinity for Trump. Nonsense. Like I said, I have no affinity for Trump other than he is the lefts worst nightmare. Weren’t democrats donating to Trump candidates last election because they knew there was little to no chance they could win? Since 2018 Trump has been the gift that keeps on giving to democrats. Quite a nightmare.
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 30, 2023 16:49:24 GMT -5
Self determination absolutely comes with restrictions! The right clearly mandates ALL people have the right to self determination!! The CSA didn't align with that--it's not a cafeteria thing. The people did exercise their right to a government of their choosing by the methods in place at the time. If you are going to claim that anything that women and slaves didn't get to vote on is invalid then nothing done by the government prior to women getting the vote is valid by that logic. If South Africa voted to expel whites and enslave any that we’re left behind would you support them?
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Post by Rael on Nov 30, 2023 17:04:00 GMT -5
REALLY?So I guess that means......... -that you believe a women has the ability to control their body -that you believe that LGBTIQA+ should be able to live their lives without all the BS. -that Blacks are equal -that Hispanics are equal -that Asians are equal -that all people, even people like Trump should be susceptible to the same laws and processes that the rest of us are subject to. Such as, you open you yap to threaten the judicary, or attempt to corrupt a jury pool or intimidate witnesses that you sorry azz goes to jail. PERIOD. -I got a ton of etcetera's. THAT, my "friend" is but a part of what freedom is. If you disagree.....frankly, your thoughts and opinions are worth a flea fart in the wind. Yes to all of those. I have always believed that. Trying to put me in one of those little boxes again? Never works. Learn something for once in your life. Smokey tends toward libertarian so I would guess he is pro choice. While I disagree vehemently with him regarding a particular former president, I would challenge anyone to find posts that prove racism on his part. And no, civil war analysis doesn't count. I honestly think he "presents" more radical right wing than his beliefs would suggest.
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Post by smokey1 on Nov 30, 2023 17:04:51 GMT -5
The people did exercise their right to a government of their choosing by the methods in place at the time. If you are going to claim that anything that women and slaves didn't get to vote on is invalid then nothing done by the government prior to women getting the vote is valid by that logic. If South Africa voted to expel whites and enslave any that we’re left behind would you support them? No but that's not my argument. My argument was about a peoples choice of a government not what that government might do or not.
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Post by mrsmlh on Nov 30, 2023 17:32:32 GMT -5
How can you say that you are for people to have the government of their choosing and then in the same breath believe that the CSA was good when their main position in government was the enslavement of other people and denying them a government of their choosing? Either you are for the CSA or you are for equality and freedom to choose your own government but you cannot be for both. Not quite as arrogant as you! and yes you are pathetic still clinging to that lost cause myth. I said I believe the CSA had a right to exist I didn't say everything they wanted was good. Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth. The CSA is a historical entity that no longer exists, I am neither for it or against it. Its history. I absolutely am an advocate for individual freedom and equality under the law and the right of a people to a government of their choice. That is why I hate the left. No I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand how on one hand you can honor and celebrate the CSA and on the other hand say that you are against what they stood for.
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Post by guido2 on Nov 30, 2023 19:28:30 GMT -5
So this should be easy for you. -OK, then renounce all of what is now the GOP aka MAGA. -Say out loud that you think the everything that Trump does is against all of the things I listed. -Admit there was a insurrection, instigated and promoted by Trump to keep himself as president. -Tell us all, how much you are disgusted by Trumps written and verbal plans to use the DOJ as a weapon against any and all that he knows and/or perceives slighted him or worse, tried (ing) to put him behind bars. -Express concern about Trumps plan to fire all present employees of the Federal Government and replace them with those loyal to him. -State loudly, that Trump is planning to use the military to put down protests or anything else that might threaten his position as president as he moves it to being a king. Thats for starters. So, sorry, the above is all tied to 'freedom'. The ball is in your court. What say you? You believe a bunch of lies. I got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. So, it seems that we are done here. Thanks for the flag.....
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Post by guido2 on Nov 30, 2023 19:39:39 GMT -5
You're claiming quod erat demonstrandum ? 😂🤣 Right church wrong pew on your part. Having exhausted your repertoire of scatological references you now begin with a recitation from your cliche collection. And your inclusion of a song and dance routine fits nicely into your M.O since most of your posts are nothing more than a song and dance routine. Ohhh dude, I am nowhere close to being exhausted providing video translations of you and your type. I understand from my experience as well as various scientific websites such as National Geographic, Smithsonian, etc. , that images work better than words for some reason with certain groups or individuals. 😉😁
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 30, 2023 20:32:13 GMT -5
If South Africa voted to expel whites and enslave any that we’re left behind would you support them? No but that's not my argument. My argument was about a peoples choice of a government not what that government might do or not. Then why the confederacy worship? They existed to enslave blacks.
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Post by smokey1 on Dec 1, 2023 0:08:21 GMT -5
I said I believe the CSA had a right to exist I didn't say everything they wanted was good. Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth. The CSA is a historical entity that no longer exists, I am neither for it or against it. Its history. I absolutely am an advocate for individual freedom and equality under the law and the right of a people to a government of their choice. That is why I hate the left. No I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm trying to understand how on one hand you can honor and celebrate the CSA and on the other hand say that you are against what they stood for. I honor the men who fought on both sides. As a former reenactor I can imagine what they went through and after reading many letters and journal entries I can understand why. The problem is you believe they stood for one thing and others see that they stood for something else. Most of the men on both sides never thought they were fighting for or against slavery especially before the EP.
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Post by smokey1 on Dec 1, 2023 0:14:23 GMT -5
No but that's not my argument. My argument was about a peoples choice of a government not what that government might do or not. Then why the confederacy worship? They existed to enslave blacks. Where did I ever worship the Confederacy? That they existed to enslave blacks is just your opinion that I don't share. They didn't just secede because of slavery. There were other reasons. I will not respond to any more CW arguments because that is not what this thread is about.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 1, 2023 7:35:24 GMT -5
Then why the confederacy worship? They existed to enslave blacks. Where did I ever worship the Confederacy? That they existed to enslave blacks is just your opinion that I don't share. They didn't just secede because of slavery. There were other reasons. I will not respond to any more CW arguments because that is not what this thread is about. Simply not true. And I am sure you don't wanna talk about the CW anymore because you know I will beat you over your head with historical documents and speeches proving your fantasy scenarios wrong. You have an ability to invent scenarios to explain your warped views. This is common among Trump supporters.
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Post by msmaggie on Dec 1, 2023 9:19:12 GMT -5
Self determination absolutely comes with restrictions! The right clearly mandates ALL people have the right to self determination!! The CSA didn't align with that--it's not a cafeteria thing. The people did exercise their right to a government of their choosing by the methods in place at the time. If you are going to claim that anything that women and slaves didn't get to vote on is invalid then nothing done by the government prior to women getting the vote is valid by that logic. Validity not the point. Self determination (in government) has its roots in the French and American revolutions but didn't really emerge as a dominant philosophy until the early 20th century. To claim the CSA was founded as a manifestation of self determination is ludicrous on its face. It was driven by economics. Specifically the economic interests of a small number of people who controlled the wealth of the region--wealth dependent on slavery. I know all the self-determination sounds better but it's lost cause revisionism.
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Post by smokey1 on Dec 1, 2023 18:28:02 GMT -5
Where did I ever worship the Confederacy? That they existed to enslave blacks is just your opinion that I don't share. They didn't just secede because of slavery. There were other reasons. I will not respond to any more CW arguments because that is not what this thread is about. Simply not true. And I am sure you don't wanna talk about the CW anymore because you know I will beat you over your head with historical documents and speeches proving your fantasy scenarios wrong. You have an ability to invent scenarios to explain your warped views. This is common among Trump supporters. That is absolutely true, slavery was a primary issue but there were other reasons. Its a joke that you think you can "beat me" in a historical discussion of the CW. I doubt you have even read one legitimate historical document or book about the war. I haven't "invented" anything. Its called actual research. The reason I won't argue the CW with you here is because you are trying to deflect from the topic of the thread and no one else wants to hear it. If you want to argue about the CW then start a thread with that topic and maybe I will respond. Again, why do you keep lying about who I support for president? Do you think that is a way you can defame me?
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Post by carllafong on Dec 1, 2023 20:44:14 GMT -5
Your terms are acceptable...no Trump
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