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Post by ishmael on Apr 17, 2024 10:25:15 GMT -5
I'm not defending them. I'm pointing out that there is a law on the books that limits their liability. But you are also arguing against alternative solutions to negate that over 100 year old law. That constitutes a defense. Don't defend a company when it needs to step up and accept that it made a mistake, and fix it. That's bad for the country, and you ought to be loyal to the country, not to some badly run economic entity in some other country. That you are not is difficult to understand. Nonsense. Your "alternative solutions" are based on the concept of pretending the Limitations law doesn't exist. It does. Whether it will be fully applicable still needs to be borne out.
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Post by ishmael on Apr 17, 2024 10:29:31 GMT -5
But you are also arguing against alternative solutions to negate that over 100 year old law. That constitutes a defense. Don't defend a company when it needs to step up and accept that it made a mistake, and fix it. That's bad for the country, and you ought to be loyal to the country, not to some badly run economic entity in some other country. That you are not is difficult to understand. You are morally right, but legally, as the law stands, you are wrong. Corporations have a legal fiduciary duty to their shareholders and the legal obligation to limit their liability. OTOH, I'm still trying to figure out why we have a law that would allow them to make the claim. The bridge didn't jump in front of the ship so it looks like a strict liability case. Since it's civil, we could probably change the law ex post facto, but I don't know enough about why we still have this law. One of the articles I read seemed to indicate that the law arose because of the unpredictability of weather in the 1800s. This law protected the ship owners from having to pay lost crew costs to families and lost cargo costs to owners. It sill exists because Congress after Congress has been too busy running for re-election.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 17, 2024 10:41:04 GMT -5
Talk about shooting the messenger. Ridiculous. What Ismael has not done: 1) Defended the shipping company. 2) Said that it should not be held responsible. 3) Said that the investigation is over. 4) Concluded that the accident is not the company's fault.
Any poster who keeps gaslighting him with their lies about what he has posted should go sit in a corner and ask themselves why they keep lying. I mean, I know why. Yeah, I had to reread a bunch of the comments because more than one poster is accusing him of all of the above. I couldn't find any of those things. It has to stop.
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Post by cameron on Apr 17, 2024 10:56:09 GMT -5
You are morally right, but legally, as the law stands, you are wrong. Corporations have a legal fiduciary duty to their shareholders and the legal obligation to limit their liability. OTOH, I'm still trying to figure out why we have a law that would allow them to make the claim. The bridge didn't jump in front of the ship so it looks like a strict liability case. Since it's civil, we could probably change the law ex post facto, but I don't know enough about why we still have this law. One of the articles I read seemed to indicate that the law arose because of the unpredictability of weather in the 1800s. This law protected the ship owners from having to pay lost crew costs to families and lost cargo costs to owners. It sill exists because Congress after Congress has been too busy running for re-election. Maybe some of these lawsuits will keep it in the news and America can talk about it. Because . . . who knew? I'd been wondering if they'd have to pay the value of the old bridge or the cost to build a new one so this Limited Liability is a total surprise.
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Post by ishmael on Apr 17, 2024 11:05:40 GMT -5
One of the articles I read seemed to indicate that the law arose because of the unpredictability of weather in the 1800s. This law protected the ship owners from having to pay lost crew costs to families and lost cargo costs to owners. It sill exists because Congress after Congress has been too busy running for re-election. Maybe some of these lawsuits will keep it in the news and America can talk about it. Because . . . who knew? I'd been wondering if they'd have to pay the value of the old bridge or the cost to build a new one so this Limited Liability is a total surprise. That would be good. Old laws at all levels have this tendency to bite us in the sitting area.
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summer23
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There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
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Post by summer23 on Apr 17, 2024 14:27:12 GMT -5
Maybe some of these lawsuits will keep it in the news and America can talk about it. Because . . . who knew? I'd been wondering if they'd have to pay the value of the old bridge or the cost to build a new one so this Limited Liability is a total surprise. That would be good. Old laws at all levels have this tendency to bite us in the sitting area. It seems that the old laws are rarely addressed except when a defense or a prosecution wants to use them. I mean, this is what lawyers do. Can't fault them for using laws to their advantage.
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Post by ishmael on Apr 17, 2024 15:58:53 GMT -5
That would be good. Old laws at all levels have this tendency to bite us in the sitting area. It seems that the old laws are rarely addressed except when a defense or a prosecution wants to use them. I mean, this is what lawyers do. Can't fault them for using laws to their advantage. This is the federal version of the Arizona abortion law.
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summer23
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There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
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Post by summer23 on Apr 25, 2024 11:35:31 GMT -5
I have nothing but compliments for how this tragedy has been handled. My order of importance has always been: #1. The families being helped. #2. Businesses being helped. #3. Opening the channels. #4 Begin to rebuild. #5. Hold those who are responsible accountable.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 25, 2024 13:25:29 GMT -5
I flew fight over it on my return flight from MA on Monday. Just unreal.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 25, 2024 16:48:08 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 25, 2024 21:52:22 GMT -5
I have nothing but compliments for how this tragedy has been handled. My order of importance has always been: #1. The families being helped. #2. Businesses being helped. #3. Opening the channels. #4 Begin to rebuild. #5. Hold those who are responsible accountable. agreed
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summer23
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There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
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Post by summer23 on Apr 30, 2024 16:59:09 GMT -5
My 16-year-old niece visited from Ohio a couple of days ago. For her birthday, she wanted to go to the Hard Yacht Cafe for dinner. Yesterday I picked her up at a friend's home in Edgemere. At 4:00p I entered the 895N ramp without giving it much thought and at 5:30p I exited the tunnel. I listened to traffic and learned that 95N&S were both just as bad. I do not know how these folks are doing it every day.
It was strange not seeing the bridge.
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Post by cowboyz on May 2, 2024 10:31:27 GMT -5
Body of 5th victim has been recovered.
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Post by soulflower on May 2, 2024 12:13:17 GMT -5
Body of 5th victim has been recovered. Sad but at least there's some closure for the family.
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Post by cowboyz on May 2, 2024 12:25:48 GMT -5
Body of 5th victim has been recovered. Sad but at least there's some closure for the family. Oh my gosh, yes. I can't imagine how difficult it must have been for these families knowing where they were and not being able to do anything about it.
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summer23
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There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,616
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Post by summer23 on May 7, 2024 20:38:30 GMT -5
Body of 6th missing worker found more than a month after Baltimore bridge collapse, officials say Authorities recovered the body of the sixth person who was missing after the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge more than a month ago, the Key Bridge Response Unified Command announced Tuesday afternoon. Salvage teams located the body of José Mynor López, 37, of Baltimore and contacted Maryland State Police, who responded along with Maryland Transportation Authority police and the FBI to recover the body. Six members of a roadwork crew plunged to their deaths on March 26 when a container ship lost power and crashed into one of the bridge’s supporting columns. They were all Latino immigrants who came to the United States from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. “With heavy hearts, today marks a significant milestone in our recovery efforts and providing closure to the loved ones of the six workers who lost their lives in this tragic event,” Maryland State Police Superintendent Roland Butler said in a statement. “As we mourn with the families, we honor the memory of José Mynor López, Alejandro Hernandez Fuentes, Dorlian Ronial Castillo Cabrera, Maynor Yasir Suazo-Sandoval, Carlos Daniel Hernandez Estrella, and Miguel Angel Luna Gonzalez.” www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/body-of-6th-missing-worker-found-more-than-a-month-after-baltimore-bridge-collapse-officials-say/3610979/?amp=1&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1x5x_SlyyNZG9qZVpd4f3MmD7lVsstFY5aqGovQKTNFx2iSTKtr964miU_aem_AUI5SWTMGslMpYoX2Gj579pTLqFb_Z7Gi2TBlxwYwhXQMtcKxIoGAHcGYb_t2WwsZUruE06KsNG-YRHWS_lF6di0
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 8, 2024 10:07:41 GMT -5
Mr. López's family can at least have some closure, for what that is worth to them.
Per the news, they will begin using small explosive charges to sever the wreckage that remains about the Dali. All containers have been removed, so this will be the last thing needed to get the ship moving, enabling the work to widen and deepen the channel to begin. Early exploration of the reconstruction has begun; current estimates say four years before it reopens.
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 15, 2024 9:23:19 GMT -5
A news report this morning indicated that the NTSB discovered a crewmember had shut off an exhaust baffle, which stalled the engine, hours before departure. Crew restarted it by cycling some circuit breakers, then somehow the engine was reconfigured to use a different set of breakers which tripped, causing the second power failure. This looks like crew error, in which case the owners' liability should be total. Here is one account.
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Post by cowboyz on May 15, 2024 9:48:37 GMT -5
I saw this morning that the crew remains on the boat! That just seems odd to me but apparently it's a visa issue and they need them for operational purposes.
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Post by cowboyz on May 15, 2024 9:49:52 GMT -5
A news report this morning indicated that the NTSB discovered a crewmember had shut off an exhaust baffle, which stalled the engine, hours before departure. Crew restarted it by cycling some circuit breakers, then somehow the engine was reconfigured to use a different set of breakers which tripped, causing the second power failure. This looks like crew error, in which case the owners' liability should be total. Here is one account.I hope this is true. We should not have to take on the financial burden.
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Post by cowboyz on May 15, 2024 9:49:56 GMT -5
A news report this morning indicated that the NTSB discovered a crewmember had shut off an exhaust baffle, which stalled the engine, hours before departure. Crew restarted it by cycling some circuit breakers, then somehow the engine was reconfigured to use a different set of breakers which tripped, causing the second power failure. This looks like crew error, in which case the owners' liability should be total. Here is one account.I hope this is true. We should not have to take on the financial burden.
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Post by workerbee on May 15, 2024 10:44:35 GMT -5
A news report this morning indicated that the NTSB discovered a crewmember had shut off an exhaust baffle, which stalled the engine, hours before departure. Crew restarted it by cycling some circuit breakers, then somehow the engine was reconfigured to use a different set of breakers which tripped, causing the second power failure. This looks like crew error, in which case the owners' liability should be total. Here is one account.I hope this is true. We should not have to take on the financial burden. "Regardless of what caused the blackout, Pandey said, he believes the disaster could have been averted, or at least minimized, had the Dali used tug escorts all the way through the channel and out to sea.“That’s the glaring human error here,” he said, referring to the lack of mandatory tug escorts. “It’s a larger problem that the industry has to deal with here.”I can't imagine why this wouldn't be required.
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Post by cowboyz on May 15, 2024 10:59:47 GMT -5
I hope this is true. We should not have to take on the financial burden. "Regardless of what caused the blackout, Pandey said, he believes the disaster could have been averted, or at least minimized, had the Dali used tug escorts all the way through the channel and out to sea.“That’s the glaring human error here,” he said, referring to the lack of mandatory tug escorts. “It’s a larger problem that the industry has to deal with here.”I can't imagine why this wouldn't be required. Seems like many of errors were made that all led to this disaster.
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Post by ishmael on May 15, 2024 12:10:14 GMT -5
A news report this morning indicated that the NTSB discovered a crewmember had shut off an exhaust baffle, which stalled the engine, hours before departure. Crew restarted it by cycling some circuit breakers, then somehow the engine was reconfigured to use a different set of breakers which tripped, causing the second power failure. This looks like crew error, in which case the owners' liability should be total. Here is one account.I hope this is true. We should not have to take on the financial burden. The government is going to end up taking on the burden anyway, IMO. This carries a $1.9B price estimate, which we generally see increase. The owner of the ship will simply declare bankruptcy.
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Post by cameron on May 16, 2024 7:07:30 GMT -5
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Post by Evil Yoda on May 16, 2024 15:10:19 GMT -5
Hopefully this will drive the shipping company's insurance rates much higher. Inexcusable to turn such staggering incompetence loose on the water where it can hazard so many others.
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Post by Rael on May 17, 2024 15:27:32 GMT -5
Something didn't look or sound right when I saw another report on this two nights ago. They said that the ship lost power 350 yards from the bridge but the video showed it looking like it was almost dead center to the bridge pylon. A ship that large under full power would be hard pressed to miss the pylon at that angle from 350 yards away. They just don't turn that fast, especially one that full and heavy. I don't want to sound like a conspiracy crackpot, but that visually doesn't add up for me. It seems to me it should have been much closer to the center opening by the time it was 350 yards away.
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