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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 17, 2024 17:30:37 GMT -5
You mean appeasement.Whether it's local, state, national or international history tells us that tolerating theft only leads to more theft. What's the alternative? The current course isn't sustainable. For Russia? Absolutely not. They’ve had another bank run
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 17, 2024 17:31:51 GMT -5
Russia keeps most of what they have stolen. They will cede some back to Ukraine to placate. The area returned will be a demilitarized zone. Russia will "pledge" to never again invade Ukrainw, so long as Ukraine doesn't join NATO. Nope
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 17, 2024 17:32:43 GMT -5
Not sure what Trump would change about US policies in Ukraine but he clearly isn't as committed to the US role in the war as Biden is... It is the exact opposite of the Biden position
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Post by soulflower on Jun 17, 2024 17:42:44 GMT -5
What's the alternative? The current course isn't sustainable. For Russia? Absolutely not. They’ve had another bank run Russia is sustaining the war just fine. Much better than most of us expected in 2022. I admit that I was wrong to think we could successfully crush or isolate Russia’s economy. As for Ukraine, they’re running out of men who want to fight in the war and they may default soon
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 17, 2024 17:59:56 GMT -5
For Russia? Absolutely not. They’ve had another bank run Russia is sustaining the war just fine. Much better than most of us expected in 2022. I admit that I was wrong to think we could successfully crush or isolate Russia’s economy. As for Ukraine, they’re running out of men who want to fight in the war and they may default soon And for the umpteenth time. Until about a month ago Ukraine did not conscript below the age of 27. They have changed the law and lowered the age to 25. That means tens of thousands if not a couple of hundred thousand new troops. That plus the fresh influx of western weapons and ammo is horrible news for your boy Putin. Meanwhile, Russia is suffering more than a thousand casualties a day So, no, this is not sustainable for Putin. Oh the US and Europe just loaned Ukraine $50 billion from the interest on Russia’s frozen assets
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Post by WKDWZD on Jun 17, 2024 18:46:49 GMT -5
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding
"Dark storm clouds threatened to upend Serhiy and Tania’s beach wedding. But as the couple walked down the long white staircase to greet their guests, the empty chairs signalled there was a bigger problem. In total, half of their guests were missing.
Their family and friends sent their apologies but explained that the risk of attending had been too great. What if they had been caught by one of the conscription squads, which now roam Ukraine’s streets?
With many of its soldiers dead, injured or exhausted, the Ukrainian government has stepped up its efforts to mobilise more men.
A new law, introduced in May, requires every man aged between 25 and 60 to log their details on an electronic database so they can be called up. Conscription officers are on the hunt for those avoiding the register, pushing more men who do not want to serve into hiding." Russia is sustaining the war just fine. Much better than most of us expected in 2022. I admit that I was wrong to think we could successfully crush or isolate Russia’s economy. As for Ukraine, they’re running out of men who want to fight in the war and they may default soon And for the umpteenth time. Until about a month ago Ukraine did not conscript below the age of 27. They have changed the law and lowered the age to 25. That means tens of thousands if not a couple of hundred thousand new troops. That plus the fresh influx of western weapons and ammo is horrible news for your boy Putin. Meanwhile, Russia is suffering more than a thousand casualties a day So, no, this is not sustainable for Putin. Oh the US and Europe just loaned Ukraine $50 billion from the interest on Russia’s frozen assets Did you miss, or not read, my post above?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 17, 2024 20:01:30 GMT -5
Conscription squads send Ukrainian men into hiding
"Dark storm clouds threatened to upend Serhiy and Tania’s beach wedding. But as the couple walked down the long white staircase to greet their guests, the empty chairs signalled there was a bigger problem. In total, half of their guests were missing.
Their family and friends sent their apologies but explained that the risk of attending had been too great. What if they had been caught by one of the conscription squads, which now roam Ukraine’s streets?
With many of its soldiers dead, injured or exhausted, the Ukrainian government has stepped up its efforts to mobilise more men.
A new law, introduced in May, requires every man aged between 25 and 60 to log their details on an electronic database so they can be called up. Conscription officers are on the hunt for those avoiding the register, pushing more men who do not want to serve into hiding." And for the umpteenth time. Until about a month ago Ukraine did not conscript below the age of 27. They have changed the law and lowered the age to 25. That means tens of thousands if not a couple of hundred thousand new troops. That plus the fresh influx of western weapons and ammo is horrible news for your boy Putin. Meanwhile, Russia is suffering more than a thousand casualties a day So, no, this is not sustainable for Putin. Oh the US and Europe just loaned Ukraine $50 billion from the interest on Russia’s frozen assets Did you miss, or not read, my post above? Yes, an anecdotal story about some people somewhere in Ukraine not wanting to serve, wow. To listen to you guys, this is the first time in history that some percentage of a country’s male population hasn’t wanted to serve in a war
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Post by WKDWZD on Jun 18, 2024 6:08:39 GMT -5
Did you miss, or not read, my post above? Yes, an anecdotal story about some people somewhere in Ukraine not wanting to serve, wow. To listen to you guys, this is the first time in history that some percentage of a country’s male population hasn’t wanted to serve in a war Okay, so you didn't read it then. You are seriously in denial.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 20, 2024 14:41:39 GMT -5
“They [the West] say that they want to achieve the strategic defeat of Russia on the battlefield. What does this mean for Russia? For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the 1000-year history of the Russian state. I think this is clear to everyone. And then the question arises: why should we be afraid? Isn't it better for us to go to the end? This is elementary formal logic”
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Putin continues to frame the war as existential for Russia.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 20, 2024 22:02:57 GMT -5
“They [the West] say that they want to achieve the strategic defeat of Russia on the battlefield. What does this mean for Russia? For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the 1000-year history of the Russian state. I think this is clear to everyone. And then the question arises: why should we be afraid? Isn't it better for us to go to the end? This is elementary formal logic”----------Putin continues to frame the war as existential for Russia. Who gives a $hit?
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Post by WKDWZD on Jun 21, 2024 5:46:33 GMT -5
“They [the West] say that they want to achieve the strategic defeat of Russia on the battlefield. What does this mean for Russia? For Russia, this means the end of its statehood. This means the end of the 1000-year history of the Russian state. I think this is clear to everyone. And then the question arises: why should we be afraid? Isn't it better for us to go to the end? This is elementary formal logic”----------Putin continues to frame the war as existential for Russia. Who gives a $hit? Clearly, you do.
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Post by WKDWZD on Jun 21, 2024 12:29:24 GMT -5
West provoked Ukraine war, Nigel Farage says
Mr Farage said he had been arguing since the 1990s that "the ever eastward expansion" of the Nato military alliance and the EU was giving President Putin "a reason to [give to] his Russian people to say they're coming for us again and to go to war".
He added: "We provoked this war. Of course, it's [President Putin's] fault."
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 22, 2024 10:32:48 GMT -5
West provoked Ukraine war, Nigel Farage says
Mr Farage said he had been arguing since the 1990s that "the ever eastward expansion" of the Nato military alliance and the EU was giving President Putin "a reason to [give to] his Russian people to say they're coming for us again and to go to war".
He added: "We provoked this war. Of course, it's [President Putin's] fault." Nigel Farage is a horse's arse. The idea that Putin seized Crimea because Poland voluntarily joined NATO has to be one of the greatest leaps of Putinist propaganda I've ever seen.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 22, 2024 10:41:48 GMT -5
Russia was paying rent to Ukraine to keep their naval bases in Crimea so long as Ukraine kept their policy of neutrality.
NATO expansion into Ukraine and a coup that overthrew the last Ukrainian President who honored the neutrality agreement led to the annexation of Crimea.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 22, 2024 12:23:34 GMT -5
Russia was paying rent to Ukraine to keep their naval bases in Crimea so long as Ukraine kept their policy of neutrality. NATO expansion into Ukraine and a coup that overthrew the last Ukrainian President who honored the neutrality agreement led to the annexation of Crimea. Nothing that the Ukrainian people did in 2014 threatened Russia's naval base. Nothing It wasn't a coup. It was a revolution and the parliament voted for the butcher to resign. Stop blaming Ukraine for Putin's imperialistic designs
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Post by soulflower on Jun 22, 2024 12:59:19 GMT -5
Russia was paying rent to Ukraine to keep their naval bases in Crimea so long as Ukraine kept their policy of neutrality. NATO expansion into Ukraine and a coup that overthrew the last Ukrainian President who honored the neutrality agreement led to the annexation of Crimea. Nothing that the Ukrainian people did in 2014 threatened Russia's naval base. The US, UK, and NATO are not "the Ukrainian people." I AM NOT BLAMING UKRAINIANS FOR PUTIN'S AGGRESSION. I'm blaming Russia's rivals for meddling in Ukraine's politics which led to retaliatory actions from Russia. Actions have consequences. Just because we're the most powerful country in the world doesn't mean everything we do abroad should or will go unanswered by rival nations or organizations. In 2014 and earlier, polls showed that majorities or pluralities of Ukrainians opposed the Maidan protests and opposed joining NATO. 2014 - Poll: More Ukrainians disapprove of EuroMaidan protests than approve of it2014 - Gallup: Before Crisis, Ukrainians More Likely to See NATO as a ThreatWe can't escape the fact that what's happened in Ukraine over the last decade (and years earlier) is part of a broader geopolitical chess game, and not solely about the regional tensions between Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainians are the pawns for the West in this chess game unfortunately. And they can't even make peace with Russia (if they wanted to) without the involvement of Western powers...
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 22, 2024 13:29:41 GMT -5
Nothing that the Ukrainian people did in 2014 threatened Russia's naval base. The US, UK, and NATO are not "the Ukrainian people." I AM NOT BLAMING UKRAINIANS FOR PUTIN'S AGGRESSION. I'm blaming Russia's rivals for meddling in Ukraine's politics which led to retaliatory actions from Russia. Actions have consequences. Just because we're the most powerful country in the world doesn't mean everything we do abroad should or will go unanswered by rival nations or organizations. In 2014 and earlier, polls showed that majorities or pluralities of Ukrainians opposed the Maidan protests and opposed joining NATO. 2014 - Poll: More Ukrainians disapprove of EuroMaidan protests than approve of it2014 - Gallup: Before Crisis, Ukrainians More Likely to See NATO as a ThreatWe can't escape the fact that what's happened in Ukraine over the last decade (and years earlier) is part of a broader geopolitical chess game, and not solely about the regional tensions between Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainians are the pawns for the West in this chess game unfortunately. And they can't even make peace with Russia (if they wanted to) without the involvement of Western powers... How did NATO meddle? Did they poison popular presidential candidates? Did NATO tamper with election results to ensure that its candidate would win? Did Obama, Bush, or Biden go to Ukraine and try to tilt the election? You want to convince everyone that the Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine was the result of Western meddling and you pin this bogus claim on the fact that your bogeyman Victoria Nuland gave the Maidan protesters some sandwiches but what you don't want people to talk about is Putin's actual interference in the country that sparked, first, the 2004 Orange Revolution and then the 2014 Maidan Revolution. This is about Putin's imperial designs. Nothing else.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 22, 2024 14:09:38 GMT -5
We can't escape the fact that what's happened in Ukraine over the last decade (and years earlier) is part of a broader geopolitical chess game, and not solely about the regional tensions between Russia and Ukraine. Ukrainians are the pawns for the West in this chess game unfortunately. And they can't even make peace with Russia (if they wanted to) without the involvement of Western powers... How did NATO meddle? Did they poison popular presidential candidates? By giving their blessing to the rightwing insurrection that forced Ukraine's elected President out of office. 2014 - Amid US-Russia tussle over Ukraine, a leaked tape of Victoria NulandThe Nuland audio took place BEFORE Ukraine's President resigned. So we were already giving our preferences for Ukraine's new government before the old government was out of power. Totally normal behavior I guess. I'm sure you would totally not suspect Russian meddling in our elections if Russian politicians showed up at Trump rallies, handpicked the new leaders of the government, and later immediately supported an unconstitutional change in government. Anyone who questioned that legitimacy of the change in power under those circumstances should be labeled a "conspiracy theorist" am I right? Usually, our government is covert about meddling in the politics of other democracies. Ukraine was different. We didn't hide our efforts. We literally had sitting US politicians showing up at anti-government rallies in Ukraine. Which sent political shockwaves around the region. It's an insult to our intelligence that you keep denying the US government's role in Ukraine's 2014 change in government.
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Post by WKDWZD on Jun 22, 2024 17:14:00 GMT -5
West provoked Ukraine war, Nigel Farage says
Mr Farage said he had been arguing since the 1990s that "the ever eastward expansion" of the Nato military alliance and the EU was giving President Putin "a reason to [give to] his Russian people to say they're coming for us again and to go to war". He added: "We provoked this war. Of course, it's [President Putin's] fault." Nigel Farage is a horse's arse. The idea that Putin seized Crimea because Poland voluntarily joined NATO has to be one of the greatest leaps of Putinist propaganda I've ever seen. Farage is not my cup of tea and I will not be voting for him. But He is an educated man, nobody's fool and his opinions are often valid. The fact that you don't like his opinion is your problem. He is no more a horse's arse than you are. However, it is an incredible leap of ignorance to deny that the eastwards expansion of NATO, had no bearing on Putin's invasion of Ukraine. You just don't want to face up to the truth.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 22, 2024 17:36:54 GMT -5
Nigel Farage is a horse's arse. The idea that Putin seized Crimea because Poland voluntarily joined NATO has to be one of the greatest leaps of Putinist propaganda I've ever seen. Farage is not my cup of tea and I will not be voting for him. But He is an educated man, nobody's fool and his opinions are often valid. The fact that you don't like his opinion is your problem. He is no more a horse's arse than you are. However, it is an incredible leap of ignorance to deny that the eastwards expansion of NATO, had no bearing on Putin's invasion of Ukraine. You just don't want to face up to the truth. Many have said similar things and faced backlash for their honesty. President Biden's CIA director predicted in 2008 (when he was the US ambassador in Russia) that inviting Ukraine into NATO would lead to Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine and Crimea. President Bush ignored Burns' advice and went on to invite Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. The issue sort of flew under the radar for years before the Biden administration re-affirmed in 2021 that Ukraine would eventually join NATO. Everyone who has paid attention to this stuff knew our actions would be viewed as provocative by the Russians. Now you're "pro-Putin" if you acknowledge that Russia was "provoked" as some predicted would happen. Biden’s CIA Director Doesn’t Believe Biden’s Story about UkraineNATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jun 22, 2024 18:42:19 GMT -5
How did NATO meddle? Did they poison popular presidential candidates? By giving their blessing to the rightwing insurrection that forced Ukraine's elected President out of office. Another window into how blind ideology leads to moral decay. Soul now has a problem with US Senators urging foreign governments not to gun down civilian pro-democracy protesters on the street. And again, stop spewing Russian propaganda. It was not a rightwing insurrection. It was a mass protest movement started by young Ukrainians who were outraged that the Ukrainian president abruptly tried to pull out of deal for closer integration with liberal Western democracies. This was a result of meddling by Putin. Only in your twisted Western-hating worldview could a mass pro-democracy movement involving literally hundreds of thousands of civilians from all walks of life be construed as a 'right wing insurrection'. Good god, man. Take a moment and look at yourself in the mirror. 2014 - Amid US-Russia tussle over Ukraine, a leaked tape of Victoria NulandThe Nuland audio took place BEFORE Ukraine's President resigned. So we were already giving our preferences for Ukraine's new government before the old government was out of power. Totally normal behavior I guess. I'm sure you would totally not suspect Russian meddling in our elections if Russian politicians showed up at Trump rallies, handpicked the new leaders of the government, and later immediately supported an unconstitutional change in government. Anyone who questioned that legitimacy of the change in power under those circumstances should be labeled a "conspiracy theorist" am I right? Usually, our government is covert about meddling in the politics of other democracies. Ukraine was different. We didn't hide our efforts. We literally had sitting US politicians showing up at anti-government rallies in Ukraine. Which sent political shockwaves around the region. It's an insult to our intelligence that you keep denying the US government's role in Ukraine's 2014 change in government. Who, other than Putin apologizing conspiracy theorists, actually gives a rat's arse about two State Department officials spitballing about developments in a country? As I have explained to you a thousand times. State Department officials talk about developments in other countries multiple times every single day. That's what they do. The fact that you keep trying to make a mountain out of this particular mole hill just shows that you really don't know what you are talking about. And no, Nuland did not hand pick the leaders of Ukraine's next government. Why can't you be honest? 1. The Ukrainian parliament voted to remove the Interior Minister in response the violence against the protesters. Nuland does not control the actions of the more than 300 members of Parliament who voted for the measure. 2. Members of various Ukrainian opposition groups were already in discussions with the Yanukovych government about forming a unity government in an effort to diffuse the situation and prevent further violence from regime's forces against the protesters and, in fact, the very person that Nuland thought 'shouldn't be in the government' was one of the opposition who signed the agreement with Yanukovych. So much for Nuland handpicking the members of Ukraine's next government. 3. Members of his own political coalition in parliament voted overwhelmingly on a resolution condemning his use of violence against the Euromaidan protesters. Many of them resigned from the Party of Regions in protest over the violence against the protesters. 4. Yanukovych did not resign 5. Parliament voted unanimously to remove Yanukovych from power. 6. Ukraine held fresh elections in May 2014 and elected the next president Poroshenko. Nuland had nothing to do with it. But what's really galling is your continued effort to downplay and gloss over the ACTUAL MEDDLING that led to the crisis in the first place. It was Putin putting pressure on the Yanukovych administration in the run up to the economic agreement with Europe that led him to abandon the parliament approved measure at the 11th hour and sparked the protests. As always, you don't have a problem with meddling if it is your boy Putin doing it in the service of his imperial designs. You're a hypocrite.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 23, 2024 10:46:46 GMT -5
Civilians killed in a missile strike near a beach in Crimea
Civilians killed in a missile strike on Kharkiv city
Ceasefire now. Stop this senseless war.
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Post by soulflower on Jun 24, 2024 14:27:54 GMT -5
West provoked Ukraine war, Nigel Farage says
Mr Farage said he had been arguing since the 1990s that "the ever eastward expansion" of the Nato military alliance and the EU was giving President Putin "a reason to [give to] his Russian people to say they're coming for us again and to go to war".
He added: "We provoked this war. Of course, it's [President Putin's] fault." Not a fan of Farage politically but I respect his response
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Post by soulflower on Jun 27, 2024 15:20:51 GMT -5
That's as close as I've ever heard President Zelensky come to expressing a desire for an off-ramp.
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Post by Jimmy Jazz on Jun 29, 2024 9:57:44 GMT -5
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