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Post by WKDWZD on Aug 10, 2023 5:50:24 GMT -5
We need a "Chamberlain" to appease Putin like he did Hitler, that worked out so well.
"Peace in our time" always sounds so good to those that believe that Liberty doesn't have a cost.
I won't discuss here the wisdom, or folly, of Chamberlain's actions, you and I have different metrics for that. But if you are going to quote Chamberlain, please do so correctly, it was "Peace for our time".
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 6:05:35 GMT -5
We need a "Chamberlain" to appease Putin like he did Hitler, that worked out so well.
"Peace in our time" always sounds so good to those that believe that Liberty doesn't have a cost.
There’s not much liberty in Ukraine today. Opposition news outlets have been banned. Churches have been banned. Men between the ages of 18 and 60 can’t leave the country. People are jailed for publishing the aftermath of air strikes. Also, war is politics by violent means and politics is war by peaceful means. We should be doing everything we can to try to stop the war and get all sides to work out their differences diplomatically.
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Post by ivanbalt on Aug 10, 2023 6:57:07 GMT -5
We need a "Chamberlain" to appease Putin like he did Hitler, that worked out so well.
"Peace in our time" always sounds so good to those that believe that Liberty doesn't have a cost.
There’s not much liberty in Ukraine today. Opposition news outlets have been banned. Churches have been banned. Men between the ages of 18 and 60 can’t leave the country. People are jailed for publishing the aftermath of air strikes. Also, war is politics by violent means and politics is war by peaceful means. We should be doing everything we can to try to stop the war and get all sides to work out their differences diplomatically. Crazy how countries that are invaded and bombed every day struggle with liberty. Hopefully Putin will bring Russian liberty to Ukraine in time.
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Post by ivanbalt on Aug 10, 2023 7:05:15 GMT -5
Tuberville is more right than wrong on this The guy currently holding up military promotions over abortion nonsense should really shut his mouth over anything military related.
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Post by rocketwolf on Aug 10, 2023 7:09:54 GMT -5
We need a "Chamberlain" to appease Putin like he did Hitler, that worked out so well.
"Peace in our time" always sounds so good to those that believe that Liberty doesn't have a cost.
I won't discuss here the wisdom, or folly, of Chamberlain's actions, you and I have different metrics for that. But if you are going to quote Chamberlain, please do so correctly, it was "Peace for our time". OK thanks. But I stand by what I said
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Post by rocketwolf on Aug 10, 2023 7:12:09 GMT -5
There’s not much liberty in Ukraine today. Opposition news outlets have been banned. Churches have been banned. Men between the ages of 18 and 60 can’t leave the country. People are jailed for publishing the aftermath of air strikes. Also, war is politics by violent means and politics is war by peaceful means. We should be doing everything we can to try to stop the war and get all sides to work out their differences diplomatically. Crazy how countries that are invaded and bombed every day struggle with liberty. Hopefully Putin will bring Russian liberty to Ukraine in time. Russian Liberty? That's exactly what the Ukrainians are fighting against.
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Post by ivanbalt on Aug 10, 2023 7:13:53 GMT -5
Crazy how countries that are invaded and bombed every day struggle with liberty. Hopefully Putin will bring Russian liberty to Ukraine in time. Russian Liberty? That's exactly what the Ukrainians are fighting against. Sarcasm
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Post by pickle20 on Aug 10, 2023 7:58:16 GMT -5
Tuberville is more right than wrong on this If we allow Russia to steamroll through Ukraine and into Moldova or a NATO country we'll have to send our troops over there to stop them and then the s--t will really hit the fan. For now, supporting Ukraine is the better option.
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Post by pickle20 on Aug 10, 2023 8:00:28 GMT -5
We need a "Chamberlain" to appease Putin like he did Hitler, that worked out so well. "Peace in our time" always sounds so good to those that believe that Liberty doesn't have a cost.
There’s not much liberty in Ukraine today. Opposition news outlets have been banned. Churches have been banned. Men between the ages of 18 and 60 can’t leave the country. People are jailed for publishing the aftermath of air strikes. Also, war is politics by violent means and politics is war by peaceful means. We should be doing everything we can to try to stop the war and get all sides to work out their differences diplomatically. And yet, they're still a sovereign country that has been invaded. Everything beyond that is irrelevant.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 8:45:59 GMT -5
There’s not much liberty in Ukraine today. Opposition news outlets have been banned. Churches have been banned. Men between the ages of 18 and 60 can’t leave the country. People are jailed for publishing the aftermath of air strikes. Also, war is politics by violent means and politics is war by peaceful means. We should be doing everything we can to try to stop the war and get all sides to work out their differences diplomatically. Crazy how countries that are invaded and bombed every day struggle with liberty. Hopefully Putin will bring Russian liberty to Ukraine in time. There's not going to be a Hollywood ending for Ukraine in this war. Their best of the bad options available to them is to sit down with the Russians and negotiate. I know it's not fair but unless we're willing to start WW3 by entering the war on Ukraine's side, Ukraine will most likely not force the Russians to withdraw. I don't understand why it's so difficult for some to accept the reality of the situation they're in. Even the MSM has come around to acknowledging how dire things are for Ukraine. Slow counteroffensive darkens mood in Ukraine
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 8:48:37 GMT -5
Tuberville is more right than wrong on this If we allow Russia to steamroll through Ukraine and into Moldova or a NATO country we'll have to send our troops over there to stop them and then the s--t will really hit the fan. For now, supporting Ukraine is the better option. Russia will not attack a NATO country. If they do, it's the end of life on earth as we know it because that would be a declaration of war against 30 countries with nuclear weapons. Please stop with the nonsense about things that are unlikely to happen. They're doing what they're doing in Ukraine because they can. Ukraine isn't a NATO member.
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Post by pickle20 on Aug 10, 2023 8:54:12 GMT -5
If we allow Russia to steamroll through Ukraine and into Moldova or a NATO country we'll have to send our troops over there to stop them and then the s--t will really hit the fan. For now, supporting Ukraine is the better option. Russia will not attack a NATO country. If they do, it's the end of life on earth as we know it because that would be a declaration of war against 30 countries with nuclear weapons. Please stop with the nonsense about things that are unlikely to happen. They're doing what they're doing in Ukraine because they can. Ukraine isn't a NATO member. I'll post what I want, thank you very much. Isn't that what you say to people who tell you to stop posting certain things? Unfortunately for Ukraine, our best play in this is to use them to grind down Russia's military so they are unable to advance beyond Ukraine. From a strategic standpoint, that has already happened. Ukraine with our support has put Russia's military on blast and shown the world they're disorganized and incompetent. The only thing they have over Ukraine is a bigger war chest.
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Post by ivanbalt on Aug 10, 2023 8:59:54 GMT -5
Crazy how countries that are invaded and bombed every day struggle with liberty. Hopefully Putin will bring Russian liberty to Ukraine in time. There's not going to be a Hollywood ending for Ukraine in this war. Their best of the bad options available to them is to sit down with the Russians and negotiate. I know it's not fair but unless we're willing to start WW3 by entering the war on Ukraine's side, Ukraine will most likely not force the Russians to withdraw. I don't understand why it's so difficult for some to accept the reality of the situation they're in. Even the MSM has come around to acknowledging how dire things are for Ukraine. Slow counteroffensive darkens mood in Ukraine No one expects a Hollywood ending. Russia has already destroyed their country. If they want to continue to fight instead of capitulating, that's their right. We all know Russia will come calling sometime in the future for the rest of their territory and you'll be saying then how it's ok and Ukraine should accept their fate.
Russia is a perpetual failure and their people know it, so their only option is to make others miserable. Been going on for centuries.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 9:06:10 GMT -5
Russia will not attack a NATO country. If they do, it's the end of life on earth as we know it because that would be a declaration of war against 30 countries with nuclear weapons. Please stop with the nonsense about things that are unlikely to happen. They're doing what they're doing in Ukraine because they can. Ukraine isn't a NATO member. I'll post what I want, thank you very much. Isn't that what you say to people who tell you to stop posting certain things? Unfortunately for Ukraine, our best play in this is to use them to grind down Russia's military so they are unable to advance beyond Ukraine.From a strategic standpoint, that has already happened. Ukraine with our support has put Russia's military on blast and shown the world they're disorganized and incompetent. The only thing they have over Ukraine is a bigger war chest. The grinding of Russian soldiers comes at a great cost to Ukrainian lives. And Ukraine is three times smaller than Russia (40 million vs 150 million people). They can't afford to lose as many people as Russia can. They're the underdogs in this fight. While I don't think Russia will be able to takeover all of Ukraine (unless they commit up to 1 million troops to the war), it's becoming clearer that Ukraine isn't able to defeat Russia. It's a stalemate. The longer they wait to make peace, the longer people from both countries will suffer. I won't apologize or feel bad for advocating for peace. A cold peace is better than a hot war.
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Post by pickle20 on Aug 10, 2023 9:08:20 GMT -5
I'll post what I want, thank you very much. Isn't that what you say to people who tell you to stop posting certain things? Unfortunately for Ukraine, our best play in this is to use them to grind down Russia's military so they are unable to advance beyond Ukraine.From a strategic standpoint, that has already happened. Ukraine with our support has put Russia's military on blast and shown the world they're disorganized and incompetent. The only thing they have over Ukraine is a bigger war chest. The grinding of Russian soldiers comes at a great cost to Ukrainian lives. And Ukraine is three times smaller than Russia (40 million vs 150 million people). They can't afford to lose as many people as Russia can. They're the underdogs in this fight. While I don't think Russia will be able to takeover all of Ukraine (unless they commit up to 1 million troops to the war), it's becoming clearer that Ukraine isn't able to defeat Russia. It's a stalemate. The longer they wait to make peace, the longer people from both countries will suffer. I won't apologize or feel bad for advocating for peace. A cold peace is better than a hot war. I want peace too but that is up for Ukraine to decide when to come to the negotiating table. Unfortunately for them it will come at a high cost; a cost you seem OK with it since it could involve them ceding 30-40 percent of the country to Russia. And then Moldova may very well be next.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 9:10:30 GMT -5
There's not going to be a Hollywood ending for Ukraine in this war. Their best of the bad options available to them is to sit down with the Russians and negotiate. I know it's not fair but unless we're willing to start WW3 by entering the war on Ukraine's side, Ukraine will most likely not force the Russians to withdraw. I don't understand why it's so difficult for some to accept the reality of the situation they're in. Even the MSM has come around to acknowledging how dire things are for Ukraine. Slow counteroffensive darkens mood in UkraineNo one expects a Hollywood ending. Russia has already destroyed their country. If they want to continue to fight instead of capitulating, that's their right. We all know Russia will come calling sometime in the future for the rest of their territory and you'll be saying then how it's ok and Ukraine should accept their fate.
Russia is a perpetual failure and their people know it, so their only option is to make others miserable. Been going on for centuries.
Right and there's little we can do to change that. Ukraine and Russia will always be neighbors. Also, Russia isn't our problem. They're not a threat to us. So it's not in our interest to wage this proxy-war indefinitely. If we care about the people of Ukraine, the best way forward is to offer off-ramps or do whatever we can to wind the war down to some sort of peace...
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 9:15:34 GMT -5
The grinding of Russian soldiers comes at a great cost to Ukrainian lives. And Ukraine is three times smaller than Russia (40 million vs 150 million people). They can't afford to lose as many people as Russia can. They're the underdogs in this fight. While I don't think Russia will be able to takeover all of Ukraine (unless they commit up to 1 million troops to the war), it's becoming clearer that Ukraine isn't able to defeat Russia. It's a stalemate. The longer they wait to make peace, the longer people from both countries will suffer. I won't apologize or feel bad for advocating for peace. A cold peace is better than a hot war. I want peace too but that is up for Ukraine to decide when to come to the negotiating table. Unfortunately for them it will come at a high cost; a cost you seem OK with it since it could involve them ceding 30-40 percent of the country to Russia.
And then Moldova may very well be next. I'm not okay with it but what can we do to stop Russia short of world war 3? You and Ivan always dodge answering that question. I'm not okay with sending US troops to die for a tiny piece of land in Ukraine. I'm not okay with risking nuclear war. We've given Ukraine everything we can to help them but it's difficult to create a new army in an ad hoc manner in less than a few years. At best they can prevent the Russians from capturing their entire country but it's unlikely that there's a magic weapon that will give Ukraine a military advantage over Russia.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 11:31:27 GMT -5
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Post by rocketwolf on Aug 10, 2023 16:06:03 GMT -5
Russia dancing with the Ukrainian Tar Baby will be Putin's downfall.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 10, 2023 16:25:47 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Aug 10, 2023 18:44:30 GMT -5
More massive aid packages to Ukraine are so “popular” that the Biden administration is bundling it with vital domestic spending. The aid for Ukraine should be voted up or down separately but they don’t seem confident that it will be approved if they vote on it separately from other stuff.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 10, 2023 19:19:31 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Aug 11, 2023 6:21:34 GMT -5
Mitch McConnell tells the truth to justify aid for Ukraine: That most of the military aid will benefit US arms manufacturers (ie the US economy). And that he doesn't care how many Ukrainians die to help us wage a perpetual proxy-war. www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/politics/white-house-responds-cnn-poll/index.html(A few dozen American volunteers and mercenaries have been killed and wounded in Ukraine fwiw)
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 12, 2023 21:58:36 GMT -5
For perspective...
$13 billion is about
1.5 percent of our defense budget 0.2 percent of our annual budget 0.05 percent of our economy
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Post by stevez51 on Aug 13, 2023 8:11:47 GMT -5
For perspective... $13 billion is about 1.5 percent of our defense budget 0.2 percent of our annual budget 0.05 percent of our economy Fentanyl is killing more Americans so Biden wants $800 million to fight it. Then send $13 billion to Ukraine. $300. to Ukraine for every $1. to help a drug crisis in his home country.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 13, 2023 9:08:32 GMT -5
For perspective... $13 billion is about 1.5 percent of our defense budget 0.2 percent of our annual budget 0.05 percent of our economy Fentanyl is killing more Americans so Biden wants $800 million to fight it. Then send $13 billion to Ukraine. $300. to Ukraine for every $1. to help a drug crisis in his home country. People shouldn’t do drugs If you want more money to fight fentanyl, write your congressman
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Post by soulflower on Aug 13, 2023 9:17:05 GMT -5
For perspective... $13 billion is about 1.5 percent of our defense budget 0.2 percent of our annual budget 0.05 percent of our economy Fentanyl is killing more Americans so Biden wants $800 million to fight it. Then send $13 billion to Ukraine. $300. to Ukraine for every $1. to help a drug crisis in his home country. The optics are bad politics for Biden. It 'looks' like he cares more about Ukraine than what's happening in his own country.
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Post by stevez51 on Aug 13, 2023 11:14:08 GMT -5
Fentanyl is killing more Americans so Biden wants $800 million to fight it. Then send $13 billion to Ukraine. $300. to Ukraine for every $1. to help a drug crisis in his home country. People shouldn’t do drugs If you want more money to fight fentanyl, write your congressman You just proved the poll. More Americans want more to be done here than in Ukraine.
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Post by stevez51 on Aug 13, 2023 11:15:15 GMT -5
Fentanyl is killing more Americans so Biden wants $800 million to fight it. Then send $13 billion to Ukraine. $300. to Ukraine for every $1. to help a drug crisis in his home country. The optics are bad politics for Biden. It 'looks' like he cares more about Ukraine than what's happening in his own country. Maybe the media will help him out by saying wars cost more money .
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 13, 2023 15:34:27 GMT -5
People shouldn’t do drugs If you want more money to fight fentanyl, write your congressman You just proved the poll. More Americans want more to be done here than in Ukraine. I did no such thing
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