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Post by soulflower on Sept 5, 2023 15:42:45 GMT -5
Congrats! Nothing says "democracy" more than attempting to suppress dissenting points of view. The problem for the pro-war Right and neoconservatives is, Republican voters are increasingly turning against supporting Ukraine with blank checks indefinitely. It's an uphill battle for the Bush/McCain wing of the GOP.
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Post by soulflower on Sept 5, 2023 15:43:46 GMT -5
When did Biden, Trump, or Obama endorse the Minsk peace deals? The ink wasn't even dry on the Minsk accords before Putin started violating the terms of the deal. Funny, how you never talk about that. Thankfully, Minsk is dead. As for NATO No one has done more to advance the cause and timetable of Ukraine's accession to NATO than Vladimir Putin Ukraine will not join NATO in our lifetimes (if ever). No country wants to go to war with Russia over Crimea. Ukraine's leaders are foolish if they don't see the writing on the wall at this point.
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Post by zenwalk on Sept 5, 2023 15:57:13 GMT -5
Russia dragoons Cubans to fight their war. Not a good omen for the Kremlin. The Cuban foreign ministry says it has uncovered a human trafficking ring aimed at recruiting Cubans to fight for Russia in its war in Ukraine. It said that Cubans living in Russia and "even some in Cuba" had been "incorporated into the military forces taking part in the war in Ukraine". Cuba is a close ally of Russia, but it stressed in its statement "it does not form part of the conflict in Ukraine". There has not yet been a response from Russia. The Cuban foreign ministry did not specify who was behind the operation. www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-66715773
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 5, 2023 15:58:13 GMT -5
Congrats! Nothing says "democracy" more than attempting to suppress dissenting points of view. The problem for the pro-war Right and neoconservatives is, Republican voters are increasingly turning against supporting Ukraine with blank checks indefinitely. It's an uphill battle for the Bush/McCain wing of the GOP. Don't make me laugh. Anytime Soul starts talking about 'democracy' you know he's losing the argument. No one is trying to suppress anything. It is interesting to look at where this think tank is getting their money from and to consider whether that is impacting their sudden shift to the pro-Putin side of the coin. And it is a pretty dramatic shift for an organization that was closely associated with Reagan. The guy posting this runs in Republican circles. Or, would you rather us not know who these people are?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 5, 2023 15:59:40 GMT -5
The ink wasn't even dry on the Minsk accords before Putin started violating the terms of the deal. Funny, how you never talk about that. Thankfully, Minsk is dead. As for NATO No one has done more to advance the cause and timetable of Ukraine's accession to NATO than Vladimir Putin Ukraine will not join NATO in our lifetimes (if ever). No country wants to go to war with Russia over Crimea. Ukraine's leaders are foolish if they don't see the writing on the wall at this point. You want to bet? How much? You're so good at seeing the future. You're so certain and you have such a great track record with these proclamations. Put your money where your mouth is. Easy money for you, right! Let's go!
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Post by soulflower on Sept 5, 2023 16:13:55 GMT -5
Congrats! Nothing says "democracy" more than attempting to suppress dissenting points of view. The problem for the pro-war Right and neoconservatives is, Republican voters are increasingly turning against supporting Ukraine with blank checks indefinitely. It's an uphill battle for the Bush/McCain wing of the GOP. No one is trying to suppress anything. It is interesting to look at where this think tank is getting their money from and to consider whether that is impacting their sudden shift to the pro-Putin side of the coin. And it is a pretty dramatic shift for an organization that was closely associated with Reagan. The guy posting this runs in Republican circles. Or, would you rather us not know who these people are? Putting America's interests first is not "pro-Putin". It's "pro-American". Every nation on the planet puts their own self-interests first. The problem with the US currently is our elite ruling classes don't have the same priorities or self-interests as the Average Joe. The people who write for the NY Times and The Atlantic don't represent regular Americans. They represent Wall St and the DC Beltway class. They're so out of touch that they have no clue why no one trusts them anymore. Most Americans are sympathetic to Ukraine but don't support the view that we should 'support Ukraine no matter the cost or how long it takes for them to win'.
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Post by WKDWZD on Sept 5, 2023 16:34:59 GMT -5
There is not a snowball in hell's chance that Ukraine will be accepted into NATO until their borders are no longer contested. If accepted into NATO prior to that, then you have started WW3,
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 5, 2023 16:53:10 GMT -5
There is not a snowball in hell's chance that Ukraine will be accepted into NATO until their borders are no longer contested. If accepted into NATO prior to that, then you have started WW3, At some point, probably in winter 24/25 we may see peace negotiations. I used to think that there would be negotiations this winter and, while that may still be possible, I am doubtful they occur or actually go anywhere. Worth remembering that West Germany joined NATO and I'm not sure that that government ever formerly accepted or acknowledged the Soviet annexation of its eastern half. Nothing to do but wait and see.
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Post by soulflower on Sept 8, 2023 9:21:22 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 9, 2023 1:15:00 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Sept 10, 2023 10:21:01 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 10, 2023 22:47:16 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Sept 11, 2023 6:51:33 GMT -5
40% isn't a "majority". That's a plurality at best. Rupert Murdoch is very pro-Ukraine and pro-Western imperialism in general for what it's worth.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 10:14:45 GMT -5
40% isn't a "majority". That's a plurality at best. Rupert Murdoch is very pro-Ukraine and pro-Western imperialism in general for what it's worth. You're not good at math, are you? 40 percent think our support is about right, 21 percent think that we should be doing more. 40 + 21 = 61 percent. 61 percent is a clear majority. So, since you seem to based on this poll, we should continue giving them money, right? I mean, when you found a single poll showing that support had slipped you started a thread and suggested that we should pull the rug out from under Ukraine
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Post by soulflower on Sept 11, 2023 10:22:49 GMT -5
I mean, when you found a single poll showing that support had slipped you started a thread and suggested that we should pull the rug out from under Ukraine Only in your own mind Joy. You always take the worst possible interpretation of my opinions. I'm totally fine with continuing to send aid to Ukraine (and I believe I've said that earlier in this thread). I just think it should be with conditions and not unconditional. With all these polls, it depends on how the questions are asked. I personally don't believe most Americans agree with Biden that we should send blank checks to Ukraine indefinitely, no matter how long this war lasts ("as long as it takes". I do believe however, that most Americans are okay with some level of support for Ukraine. I'm also aware that Americans (on all sides) generally are growing tired of sending so much money over there when the economy here isn't perceived as doing well and we have so many problems at home. Politically, it's becoming a liability to keep spending large amounts of our tax dollars on the war but some are too politically blind to notice the shifts in public sentiment...
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 10:29:49 GMT -5
I mean, when you found a single poll showing that support had slipped you started a thread and suggested that we should pull the rug out from under Ukraine Only in your own mind Joy. You always take the worst possible interpretation of my opinions. I'm totally fine with continuing to send aid to Ukraine (and I believe I've said that earlier in this thread). I just think it should be with conditions and not unconditional. With all these polls, it depends on how the questions are asked. I personally don't believe most Americans agree with Biden that we should send blank checks to Ukraine indefinitely, no matter how long this war lasts ("as long as it takes". I do believe however, that most Americans are okay with some level of support for Ukraine. I'm also aware that Americans (on all sides) generally are growing tired of sending so much money over there when the economy here isn't perceived as doing well and we have so many problems at home. Politically, it's becoming a liability to keep spending large amounts of our tax dollars on the war but some are too politically blind to notice the shifts in public sentiment... Those are all your opinions and their based on your preconceived notions and biases. Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans believe the US should help Ukraine. You found one poll suggesting that support had fallen below a majority and you're clinging to it like a baby clinging to his woobie.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 10:31:57 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Sept 11, 2023 11:36:09 GMT -5
Only in your own mind Joy. You always take the worst possible interpretation of my opinions. I'm totally fine with continuing to send aid to Ukraine (and I believe I've said that earlier in this thread). I just think it should be with conditions and not unconditional. With all these polls, it depends on how the questions are asked. I personally don't believe most Americans agree with Biden that we should send blank checks to Ukraine indefinitely, no matter how long this war lasts ("as long as it takes". I do believe however, that most Americans are okay with some level of support for Ukraine. I'm also aware that Americans (on all sides) generally are growing tired of sending so much money over there when the economy here isn't perceived as doing well and we have so many problems at home. Politically, it's becoming a liability to keep spending large amounts of our tax dollars on the war but some are too politically blind to notice the shifts in public sentiment... Those are all your opinions and their based on your preconceived notions and biases. Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans believe the US should help Ukraine. You found one poll suggesting that support had fallen below a majority and you're clinging to it like a baby clinging to his woobie. The CNN poll is significant and newsworthy because it's the first poll that shows a majority of Americans opposing more aid to Ukraine. It could be an outlier but I stand by my view that it depends on how the questions are asked. Each poll asks questions about sending aid to Ukraine differently. Some surveys are more specific and detailed than others...
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 13:45:24 GMT -5
Those are all your opinions and their based on your preconceived notions and biases. Poll after poll shows a majority of Americans believe the US should help Ukraine. You found one poll suggesting that support had fallen below a majority and you're clinging to it like a baby clinging to his woobie. The CNN poll is significant and newsworthy because it's the first poll that shows a majority of Americans opposing more aid to Ukraine. It could be an outlier but I stand by my view that it depends on how the questions are asked. Each poll asks questions about sending aid to Ukraine differently. Some surveys are more specific and detailed than others... So, the guy who constantly throws up polls like an overwrought bulimic party girl in a Chelsea bathroom is suddenly mansplaining to the rest of us that we shouldn't necessarily take polls at face value; or, are we only supposed to pay attention to polls that appear to confirm your worldview?
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Post by soulflower on Sept 11, 2023 13:59:48 GMT -5
The CNN poll is significant and newsworthy because it's the first poll that shows a majority of Americans opposing more aid to Ukraine. It could be an outlier but I stand by my view that it depends on how the questions are asked. Each poll asks questions about sending aid to Ukraine differently. Some surveys are more specific and detailed than others... So, the guy who constantly throws up polls like an overwrought bulimic party girl in a Chelsea bathroom is suddenly mansplaining to the rest of us that we shouldn't necessarily take polls at face value; or, are we only supposed to pay attention to polls that appear to confirm your worldview? Not at all. I simply explained in my previous post why I started this thread about the CNN poll. I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You're free to think whatever you want about my opinions and my intentions. I only explain myself and elaborate on my views because this isn't a private conversation, not because I care what you think of me.
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Post by soulflower on Sept 11, 2023 21:33:55 GMT -5
He does have a point
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 21:53:53 GMT -5
The Biden Administration should pull the SOB’s FCC license
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 11, 2023 21:54:27 GMT -5
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Post by WKDWZD on Sept 12, 2023 6:39:39 GMT -5
The Biden Administration should pull the SOB’s FCC license Musk has the right to remain neutral if he so chooses. If he was allowing Russia to use his technology you might have a point, but even if he did, what law has he broken?
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Post by soulflower on Sept 12, 2023 6:55:39 GMT -5
“Curtailing aid to Ukraine will only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”.”www.economist.com/europe/2023/09/10/donald-trump-will-never-support-putin-says-volodymyr-zelenskyPresident Zelensky is sounding more and more unhinged lately.
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Post by carllafong on Sept 12, 2023 7:54:09 GMT -5
The Biden Administration should pull the SOB’s FCC license Musk has the right to remain neutral if he so chooses. If he was allowing Russia to use his technology you might have a point, but even if he did, what law has he broken? JMO, but selectively restricting it's use sure doesn't seem very neutral.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Sept 12, 2023 7:55:38 GMT -5
The Biden Administration should pull the SOB’s FCC license Musk has the right to remain neutral if he so chooses. If he was allowing Russia to use his technology you might have a point, but even if he did, what law has he broken? He's not being neutral. He's helping the Russians
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Post by soulflower on Sept 12, 2023 8:01:30 GMT -5
Musk has the right to remain neutral if he so chooses. If he was allowing Russia to use his technology you might have a point, but even if he did, what law has he broken? He's not being neutral. He's helping the Russians That’s rich. Musk, at no cost to Ukraine, voluntarily allowed them to use his Starlink network. Which gave them secure internet access while Russia attacked their infrastructure. He didn’t have to do that. But now “he’s helping Russia” because he won’t let the Ukrainians use his network in ways that he disapproves of? Why won’t the US govt give Ukraine everything they want, including F35s and nukes? Is the US helping Russia by not granting everything on Ukraine’s wishlist?
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Post by soulflower on Sept 12, 2023 8:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by Jimmy Jazz on Sept 12, 2023 10:25:46 GMT -5
Hasn’t this been the story of basically every weapon system? F16s, Abrams, etc…?
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