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Post by pickle20 on Dec 18, 2023 9:48:53 GMT -5
Man, you're the expert on everything. How many times have you been a victim of crime while attending a Caps game? Last Caps game I went to was the old arena. Parking lot was murder to get out of ........... So no personal experience of attending anything at the DC arena. And yet you're a knowitall.
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Post by vosa on Dec 18, 2023 12:56:51 GMT -5
Like others here when you don’t like the content of an article you claim it is biased media. Without any proof, of course. Can you point out any factual inaccuracies in the articles I linked too? No, you can’t. Is NBC News in D.C. right wing media?The Washington Post has an article on crime and the move but it’s behind a paywall so you’ve got an excuse to discount that. Is the AP right wing media?As I said before, you assume that because crime hasn’t happened to you in the area surrounding the arena it must not be happening to other people. That’s like saying that because someone in Kansas has never experienced a rip tide, no one has experienced a rip tide. I've never said crime doesn't exist, but it's blatantly obvious this move is about money. And your right-wing opinion pieces in your previous post tried their best to solely place the blame on Democrat policies and how the poor billionaire had no choice but to take a nice $2 billion gift from another state. 1. I never claimed that you said crime doesn't exist 2. Actions can have more than 1 cause. Crime may not have been the sole reason for the move but according to the articles I linked to it was a factor. 3. You claim the 1st set of articles I linked to were right-wing opinion pieces but are silent when I link to sources that say the same thing but are clearly not right-wing. Why is that?
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 18, 2023 13:08:21 GMT -5
I've never said crime doesn't exist, but it's blatantly obvious this move is about money. And your right-wing opinion pieces in your previous post tried their best to solely place the blame on Democrat policies and how the poor billionaire had no choice but to take a nice $2 billion gift from another state. 1. I never claimed that you said crime doesn't exist 2. Actions can have more than 1 cause. Crime may not have been the sole reason for the move but according to the articles I linked to it was a factor. 3. You claim the 1st set of articles I linked to were right-wing opinion pieces but are silent when I link to sources that say the same thing but are clearly not right-wing. Why is that? Your right-wing opinion pieces are clearly trying to paint this as they're leaving because of the crime which is why it's no surprise you share the opinion. The other sites are not saying the same thing.
Fox News headline - "Washington Wizards, Capitals plan to depart DC as crime crisis intensifies; Youngkin celebrates move"
AP Headline - "Wizards, Capitals would move to Virginia in tentative deal, Youngkin says. Mystics would stay in DC"
Washington Examiner headline - "Winsome Sears says crime in DC was 'issue' in Capitals-Wizards arena move"
NBC headline - "Virginia officials and Wizards, Caps owner agree on $2B plan to bring teams across the river "
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Post by vosa on Dec 18, 2023 13:23:45 GMT -5
1. I never claimed that you said crime doesn't exist 2. Actions can have more than 1 cause. Crime may not have been the sole reason for the move but according to the articles I linked to it was a factor. 3. You claim the 1st set of articles I linked to were right-wing opinion pieces but are silent when I link to sources that say the same thing but are clearly not right-wing. Why is that? Your right-wing opinion pieces are clearly trying to paint this as they're leaving because of the crime which is why it's no surprise you share the opinion. The other sites are not saying the same thing. Fox News headline - "Washington Wizards, Capitals plan to depart DC as crime crisis intensifies; Youngkin celebrates move" AP Headline - "Wizards, Capitals would move to Virginia in tentative deal, Youngkin says. Mystics would stay in DC" Washington Examiner headline - "Winsome Sears says crime in DC was 'issue' in Capitals-Wizards arena move" NBC headline - "Virginia officials and Wizards, Caps owner agree on $2B plan to bring teams across the river " The fact that AP & NBC don't mention crime as a factor does not mean that crime wasn't a factor. Show me an article that says crime wasn't a factor in the move and I might start to believe that the mentioning of crime as a factor is a vast right-wing conspiracy to....do what? Highlight the crime problem in D.C.?
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Post by vosa on Dec 18, 2023 13:39:50 GMT -5
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 18, 2023 13:55:41 GMT -5
Your right-wing opinion pieces are clearly trying to paint this as they're leaving because of the crime which is why it's no surprise you share the opinion. The other sites are not saying the same thing. Fox News headline - "Washington Wizards, Capitals plan to depart DC as crime crisis intensifies; Youngkin celebrates move" AP Headline - "Wizards, Capitals would move to Virginia in tentative deal, Youngkin says. Mystics would stay in DC" Washington Examiner headline - "Winsome Sears says crime in DC was 'issue' in Capitals-Wizards arena move" NBC headline - "Virginia officials and Wizards, Caps owner agree on $2B plan to bring teams across the river " The fact that AP & NBC don't mention crime as a factor does not mean that crime wasn't a factor. Show me an article that says crime wasn't a factor in the move and I might start to believe that the mentioning of crime as a factor is a vast right-wing conspiracy to....do what? Highlight the crime problem in D.C.? So you need someone else to write an opinion piece for you to believe?
You must not follow sports, but billionaires may claim all sorts of reasons for moving but it always comes down to how much tax payers will subsidize them. In this case it was $500 million for an existing arena in DC or a new arena as part of a $2 billion development in VA. Yeah, crime or something.
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 18, 2023 14:00:14 GMT -5
Wow, I'm shocked that the Washington Examiner would write an article about how horrible the liberal media is in covering a Democrat President. I wonder if they ran the same self reflection during the Trump administration? No, I'm guessing they just whined about the liberal media some more.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 18, 2023 14:06:40 GMT -5
This is such a silly argument.
Crime is not usually a sports attendance deterrent, but the quality of the teams is.
The Wizards have been horrible for most of my lifetime, and have been awful for the last 6 years. You could play their games in a maximum security arena with armed security guards at every entrance and they'd still be at the bottom of the league in attendance, which they are now.
Meanwhile, the 2021-2022 Capitals finished second in attendance. Last year they weren't so good, missed the playoffs, and attendance dropped but they were still in the top third.
So it really doesn't matter where a team plays. If they're good, and consistently good, people will find a way to show up.
Not to mention, this move isn't going to happen for another 4-5 years at which point crime may not even be an issue. It's unwise for businesses to use crime as a determining factor because its so volatile year to year. Baltimore is going to see a 20 percent drop in homicides this year.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Dec 18, 2023 14:14:42 GMT -5
Not a fan of either sport but this is absolutely horrible news for DC.
That arena and those teams helped revitalize that area of downtown DC. Now it's going to become a giant white elephant and a lot of businesses will close
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Post by vosa on Dec 18, 2023 14:20:41 GMT -5
Wow, I'm shocked that the Washington Examiner would write an article about how horrible the liberal media is in covering a Democrat President. I wonder if they ran the same self reflection during the Trump administration? No, I'm guessing they just whined about the liberal media some more. The WE conducted a poll and published the results. This is not the WE's opinion. This is just another case or where you have no evidence to contradict the subject of the article so you attack the source of the article. Anytime you don't like an article someone links to you claim it is right-wing bias. You're a one trick pony and it's getting old.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 18, 2023 14:24:44 GMT -5
I have found that the people who admit to never visiting a place tend to have a more negative opinion of that place than the people who do visit.
Why is that?
Would you take seriously a person who has reviewed a movie they've never seen over a person who has seen the movie?
Why are people who don't experience things for themselves being taken seriously? Why aren't they mocked and criticized for speaking their mind about something they know nothing about?
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 18, 2023 14:38:21 GMT -5
Wow, I'm shocked that the Washington Examiner would write an article about how horrible the liberal media is in covering a Democrat President. I wonder if they ran the same self reflection during the Trump administration? No, I'm guessing they just whined about the liberal media some more. The WE conducted a poll and published the results. This is not the WE's opinion. This is just another case or where you have no evidence to contradict the subject of the article so you attack the source of the article. Anytime you don't like an article someone links to you claim it is right-wing bias. You're a one trick pony and it's getting old. Actually Rasmussen conducted a poll and WE framed the results. Can you provide me with the exact questions asked by Rasmussen and the demographics of the polling group?
Another Rasmussen poll to think about:
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Post by vosa on Dec 18, 2023 15:52:56 GMT -5
The WE conducted a poll and published the results. This is not the WE's opinion. This is just another case or where you have no evidence to contradict the subject of the article so you attack the source of the article. Anytime you don't like an article someone links to you claim it is right-wing bias. You're a one trick pony and it's getting old. Actually Rasmussen conducted a poll and WE framed the results. Can you provide me with the exact questions asked by Rasmussen and the demographics of the polling group? Another Rasmussen poll to think about: What polls do you believe are accurate?
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Post by stevez51 on Dec 18, 2023 18:03:49 GMT -5
Last Caps game I went to was the old arena. Parking lot was murder to get out of ........... So no personal experience of attending anything at the DC arena. And yet you're a knowitall. There are news reports. Do you get Baltimore or DC stations out your way ..??
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 18, 2023 18:07:18 GMT -5
So no personal experience of attending anything at the DC arena. And yet you're a knowitall. There are news reports. Do you get Baltimore or DC stations out your way ..?? DC but I don’t watch local news. I don’t doubt there is crime down there but basing all your beliefs on what other people tell you isn’t a good idea. Sometimes you have to go out and see for yourself. Do your own research.
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Post by stevez51 on Dec 18, 2023 18:14:42 GMT -5
Actually Rasmussen conducted a poll and WE framed the results. Can you provide me with the exact questions asked by Rasmussen and the demographics of the polling group? Another Rasmussen poll to think about: What polls do you believe are accurate? I believe it has more to do with the person talking about crime. If someone on the right says something negative about a city on crime the people on the left rush to the cities defense. The claim is its never as bad as you say.
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Post by stevez51 on Dec 18, 2023 18:16:54 GMT -5
There are news reports. Do you get Baltimore or DC stations out your way ..?? DC but I don’t watch local news. I don’t doubt there is crime down there but basing all your beliefs on what other people tell you isn’t a good idea. Sometimes you have to go out and see for yourself. Do your own research. I've claimed what I see with my own eyes and get you don't know the facts thrown at me.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 18, 2023 21:15:18 GMT -5
DC but I don’t watch local news. I don’t doubt there is crime down there but basing all your beliefs on what other people tell you isn’t a good idea. Sometimes you have to go out and see for yourself. Do your own research. I've claimed what I see with my own eyes and get you don't know the facts thrown at me. You admitted you haven’t been to the Capitol One arena. Why should I take you seriously as it applies to this thread?
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 19, 2023 6:14:52 GMT -5
What polls do you believe are accurate? I believe it has more to do with the person talking about crime. If someone on the right says something negative about a city on crime the people on the left rush to the cities defense. The claim is its never as bad as you say. Or, when a billionaire is being offered the largest public arena subsidy ever to move, the right rush in to say it's because of Democrat policies on crime.
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 19, 2023 6:17:58 GMT -5
Actually Rasmussen conducted a poll and WE framed the results. Can you provide me with the exact questions asked by Rasmussen and the demographics of the polling group? Another Rasmussen poll to think about: What polls do you believe are accurate? What's the definition of accurate? I don't think polling companies are making up numbers, but how they ask questions and who they ask is susceptible to bias.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 19, 2023 7:22:26 GMT -5
What polls do you believe are accurate? I believe it has more to do with the person talking about crime. If someone on the right says something negative about a city on crime the people on the left rush to the cities defense. The claim is its never as bad as you say. This is not true. I have criticized Baltimore and other cities many times here. Others have too. The thing is, the right likes to paint cities as Escape From New York when in reality there are normal people like you and me living there, going to work, raising families, trying to get by. We just want a more accurate portrayal of cities because the right is exaggerating them into comical, sci-fi level dystopias which is simply untrue.
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Post by alienrace on Dec 19, 2023 10:22:19 GMT -5
I believe it has more to do with the person talking about crime. If someone on the right says something negative about a city on crime the people on the left rush to the cities defense. The claim is its never as bad as you say. This is not true. I have criticized Baltimore and other cities many times here. Others have too. The thing is, the right likes to paint cities as Escape From New York when in reality there are normal people like you and me living there, going to work, raising families, trying to get by. We just want a more accurate portrayal of cities because the right is exaggerating them into comical, sci-fi level dystopias which is simply untrue. Yeah, but you just said you don't watch the local news. Just because you're fortunate enough to not have things happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening and increasing at an alarming rate. IMO if the local DC stations are making this newsworthy, something is up. The stats are certainly alarming in DC right now.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 19, 2023 10:36:02 GMT -5
This is not true. I have criticized Baltimore and other cities many times here. Others have too. The thing is, the right likes to paint cities as Escape From New York when in reality there are normal people like you and me living there, going to work, raising families, trying to get by. We just want a more accurate portrayal of cities because the right is exaggerating them into comical, sci-fi level dystopias which is simply untrue. Yeah, but you just said you don't watch the local news. Just because you're fortunate enough to not have things happen to you doesn't mean it's not happening and increasing at an alarming rate. IMO if the local DC stations are making this newsworthy, something is up. The stats are certainly alarming in DC right now. DC is the outlier among US cities for some reason. Crime is decreasing everywhere else and the righties here don't want to talk about that or give credit where it is due. And just because I don't watch DC local news nightly doesn't mean I live in a bubble as to what is happening there. I follow Baltimore news more since I am from there. I just don't think crime was a major issue as to why these teams moved. In 5 years crime could be much lower in that area. In 5 years Potomac Yards could have more crime. Crime is a volatile metric which is why businesses typically don't make it a determining factor. If they did they'd have all fled US cities by now.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 19, 2023 10:49:11 GMT -5
There does seem to be a trend of sports teams moving out of cities, though. Atlanta Braves moved to Cobb County. And not because of crime, but because of real estate. The Battery is an entertainment district filled with a stadium, restaurants, clubs, bars, and hotels. That is what John Angelos wants here in Baltimore, but, he doesn't own the land and shares it with the Ravens. So the trend is these owners moving to places where there is more land so they can build up more businesses and turn their operation into a year-round thing. I am sure that is a leading reason why Leonsis moved his teams out of DC.
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Post by alienrace on Dec 19, 2023 10:56:38 GMT -5
There does seem to be a trend of sports teams moving out of cities, though. Atlanta Braves moved to Cobb County. And not because of crime, but because of real estate. The Battery is an entertainment district filled with a stadium, restaurants, clubs, bars, and hotels. That is what John Angelos wants here in Baltimore, but, he doesn't own the land and shares it with the Ravens. So the trend is these owners moving to places where there is more land so they can build up more businesses and turn their operation into a year-round thing. I am sure that is a leading reason why Leonsis moved his teams out of DC. No disagreement here. It doesn't seem though that Angelos will be the owner of record by the time those issues are settled though.
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 19, 2023 11:06:07 GMT -5
Used to be sports teams (owners) wanted to be part of civic pride and help bring jobs and money into a city. Now they want to build their own cities and keep all that money for themselves.
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 19, 2023 11:35:28 GMT -5
Used to be sports teams (owners) wanted to be part of civic pride and help bring jobs and money into a city. Now they want to build their own cities and keep all that money for themselves. Big companies in this country used to be the same way. Unfortunately, the people that changed the business mindset in this country are also the ones rich enough to own the teams.
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Post by vosa on Dec 19, 2023 14:31:46 GMT -5
What polls do you believe are accurate? What's the definition of accurate? I don't think polling companies are making up numbers, but how they ask questions and who they ask is susceptible to bias. OK, let's try this. Which polls do you trust?
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Post by pickle20 on Dec 19, 2023 14:38:03 GMT -5
Everyone knows Rasmussen polls is one of the most biased pollsters out there. It's common knowledge.
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Post by ivanbalt on Dec 20, 2023 6:30:58 GMT -5
What's the definition of accurate? I don't think polling companies are making up numbers, but how they ask questions and who they ask is susceptible to bias. OK, let's try this. Which polls do you trust? I don't put much stock in polls. But for the thing you posted, I agree that the media has bias. But it was framed in a way that it's just the "liberal media" with bias protecting Biden. A whole lot of the spectrum is being ignored.
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