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Post by grindelwald on Jan 27, 2024 12:53:13 GMT -5
Biden is not “the Democrats”. I never said the Democrats as a party are unpopular. I’m saying Biden is unpopular and would probably lose if the Presidential election were today. You say that... but what Democrats do you think would beat Trump? I think Obama and maybe Newsome would have a shot at it, but it would still be close. After that, everyone else is either demonstrably worse that Biden (Harris, Hillary, Warren and Buttigeig), even older than Biden (Sanders), on their way to switching parties (Phillips and Gabbard) or nobody knows who the hell they are. Zero evidence Phillips is switching parties. Not sure where you got that idea.
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Post by pickle20 on Jan 27, 2024 14:07:25 GMT -5
Biden already beat Trump and many polls show them head to head.
When the non-political people start seeing Trump is even worse than he was before with the election fraud BS, lies, grievances, dictatorship, he stammers and rambles endlessly, they'll likely decide at least Biden is safer choice.
At least that's the way I see it.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,616
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Post by summer23 on Jan 27, 2024 14:13:22 GMT -5
It's not unusual to see the vulnerability of an incumbent president exaggerated. Many Republicans (Trump included) continue to believe that the Presidency was there for the taking in '12 and Mitt simply blew it. The reality of the data was that Obama was never in any serious danger of losing. Biden is polling far worse currently than Obama or Trump were at any point in their presidencies. Biden also doesn’t have the die hard base of support that Obama had and Trump has. You actually have valid point here. He should be blasting Trump out of the water at this point. Support for Biden is lukewarm and I think much of that is because many people will hold thier nose and vote against Trump.
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Post by vosa on Jan 27, 2024 14:26:27 GMT -5
Odd that Rasmussen polls continually have him like 10 points higher than most other polls. Rasmussen polls aren't generally considered reputable. They use questionable methods. Instead of cherry-picking polls, why not focus on the averages of all the polls? See the graph below: projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/?ex_cid=abcpromoThe good news is, Biden has time to turn things around. Biden's between a rock and a hard place. If he sticks with the Progressives, which is where he has been since 1/20/2021, he risks losing Independents and perhaps some (D)s. If he moves toward the center, which he has shown signs of doing, he loses the Progressives. It appears his handlers have calculated that he gets more votes by moving toward the center than he does by sticking with the Progressives.
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Post by pickle20 on Jan 27, 2024 14:39:56 GMT -5
Biden will always have an ace up his sleeve and that is Republicans determined to run Trump against him...perhaps the only Republican nominee he can beat.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jan 27, 2024 15:35:17 GMT -5
Biden will always have an ace up his sleeve and that is Republicans determined to run Trump against him...perhaps the only Republican nominee he can beat. Again... The GOP strategy is to run the guy that repulsed moderate Republicans and suburban women in November 2020 AND THEN FURTHER HORRIFIED PEOPLE WITH HIS POST ELECTION BEHAVIOR. Is he running as a 'new' Trump? No, he's actually doubling down on most of the things that drove people to Biden in the first place and add to that a constant stream of stories about his legal troubles stemming from mishandling classified documents, sexually assaulting a woman, running a criminal conspiracy to overturn the last election, and being a fraud. I fail to see how this is going to broaden his coalition enough to secure a victory. I have been wrong before but I just don't see it.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 27, 2024 15:51:41 GMT -5
Biden is not “the Democrats”. I never said the Democrats as a party are unpopular. I’m saying Biden is unpopular and would probably lose if the Presidential election were today. You say that... but what Democrats do you think would beat Trump? I think Obama and maybe Newsome would have a shot at it, but it would still be close. After that, everyone else is either demonstrably worse that Biden (Harris, Hillary, Warren and Buttigeig), even older than Biden (Sanders), on their way to switching parties (Phillips and Gabbard) or nobody knows who the hell they are. I think Michelle, Newsome, or Whitmer could beat Trump. The governor of PA, Shapiro could be a good choice too.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 27, 2024 16:05:20 GMT -5
Biden's between a rock and a hard place. If he sticks with the Progressives, which is where he has been since 1/20/2021, he risks losing Independents and perhaps some (D)s. If he moves toward the center, which he has shown signs of doing, he loses the Progressives. It appears his handlers have calculated that he gets more votes by moving toward the center than he does by sticking with the Progressives. He doesn’t seem to doing well with any demographic group of voters except the highly educated.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jan 27, 2024 16:10:57 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 27, 2024 16:29:53 GMT -5
You say that... but what Democrats do you think would beat Trump? I think Obama and maybe Newsome would have a shot at it, but it would still be close. After that, everyone else is either demonstrably worse that Biden (Harris, Hillary, Warren and Buttigeig), even older than Biden (Sanders), on their way to switching parties (Phillips and Gabbard) or nobody knows who the hell they are. I think Michelle, Newsome, or Whitmer could beat Trump. The governor of PA, Shapiro could be a good choice too. Shapiro isn't doing a bad job. But he doesn't have the name recognition yet. No one knows who he is. Maybe next cycle. Trump beats him this year. Whitmer isn't as charismatic as Newsome and she's not known outside of Michigan. What she is known for is going Fascist during COVID.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jan 27, 2024 16:45:16 GMT -5
A little noticed story but the RNC has some serious money issues
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Post by soulflower on Jan 27, 2024 17:33:13 GMT -5
I think Michelle, Newsome, or Whitmer could beat Trump. The governor of PA, Shapiro could be a good choice too. Shapiro isn't doing a bad job. But he doesn't have the name recognition yet. No one knows who he is. Maybe next cycle. Trump beats him this year. Whitmer isn't as charismatic as Newsome and she's not known outside of Michigan. What she is known for is going Fascist during COVID. At this point, only Michelle and maybe Newsom could jump in the Dem primaries and challenge Biden. I can’t think of anyone else who has enough name recognition to step in at this point and be viable. As far as 2028 goes, Dems seem to have a decent bench of governors currently who could run for POTUS in the future.
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 27, 2024 18:07:27 GMT -5
Shapiro isn't doing a bad job. But he doesn't have the name recognition yet. No one knows who he is. Maybe next cycle. Trump beats him this year. Whitmer isn't as charismatic as Newsome and she's not known outside of Michigan. What she is known for is going Fascist during COVID. At this point, only Michelle and maybe Newsom could jump in the Dem primaries and challenge Biden. I can’t think of anyone else who has enough name recognition to step in at this point and be viable. As far as 2028 goes, Dems seem to have a decent bench of governors currently who could run for POTUS in the future. I agree 2028 will be interesting. Neither Biden nor Trump will be running. Which ever one of them wins will term out in 2028. If Trump wins, Biden isn't ever coming back. If Biden wins, I suppose it's possible Trump will try again, but I think he knows he's too old to try again. So it will be a wide open field on both sides, hopefully with much younger candidates. Shaprio is an interesting possibility. We'll need to see how his term goes. I think Whitmer comes off too much like Hillary. I think Newsome might be done by 2028. Michelle is still a possibility. But the GOP will have a new crop too. One of the candidates will be Trump's VP. Don't know who that will be... my guess is Ramaswamy. If people feel like the economy has turned around, and we get more stability in the world, I think the Democrats have a hard time coming back from Biden. Just like they did with Carter 45 years ago. If the country is still struggling, the GOP has a few people who are sufficiently separated from Trump (DeSantis, Haley, Abbot) to make the run without the Trump baggage.
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 27, 2024 18:09:46 GMT -5
At this point, only Michelle and maybe Newsom could jump in the Dem primaries and challenge Biden. I can’t think of anyone else who has enough name recognition to step in at this point and be viable. As far as 2028 goes, Dems seem to have a decent bench of governors currently who could run for POTUS in the future. I agree 2028 will be interesting. Neither Biden nor Trump will be running. Which ever one of them wins will term out in 2028. If Trump wins, Biden isn't ever coming back. If Biden wins, I suppose it's possible Trump will try again, but I think he knows he's too old to try again. So it will be a wide open field on both sides, hopefully with much younger candidates. Shaprio is an interesting possibility. We'll need to see how his term goes. I think Whitmer comes off too much like Hillary. I think Newsome might be done by 2028. Michelle is still a possibility. But the GOP will have a new crop too. One of the candidates will be Trump's VP. Don't know who that will be... my guess is Ramaswamy. If people feel like the economy has turned around, and we get more stability in the world, I think the Democrats have a hard time coming back from Biden. Just like they did with Carter 45 years ago. If the country is still struggling, the GOP has a few people who are sufficiently separated from Trump (DeSantis, Haley, Abbot) to make the run without the Trump baggage. So heads GOP wins. Tails GOP wins. Wow. What an erudite analysis!
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Post by upstream on Jan 28, 2024 6:10:05 GMT -5
Love the look on the guy’s face. 😂😂 Hell we’re looking at polls this far out. Why not psychics???
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Post by soulflower on Jan 28, 2024 9:30:01 GMT -5
Arab American leaders in Michigan refused to meet with President Biden's campaign manager
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 9:51:23 GMT -5
Arab American leaders in Michigan refused to meet with President Biden Watch the clip. They want to meet with Biden. They don't want to meet with campaign staff.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 28, 2024 10:47:23 GMT -5
Arab American leaders in Michigan refused to meet with President Biden Watch the clip. They want to meet with Biden. They don't want to meet with campaign staff. Some of them said they don’t want to meet Biden as long as he opposes a ceasefire. The “lesser evil” argument is a wash if Biden is perceived as complicit in a potential genocide. In other news, Nancy Pelosi this morning gave the absolute worst take. Accuses mostly Democrat pro-ceasefire protesters of being backed by the Russians. When all else fails, Dem leaders blame Putin. They’ll say anything to avoid holding war criminal Netanyahu accountable. BTW, 50% of Dems believe Israel is attempting a genocide in Gaza. Not sure how Biden and Pelosi thread the needle of holding their coalition together in spite of the events in the Middle East. ’50% of Biden voters say Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, poll finds’www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1'Black Christian leaders call for cease-fire in Gaza'www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/11/10/israel-gaza-conflict-black-christians/
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 10:52:22 GMT -5
Watch the clip. They want to meet with Biden. They don't want to meet with campaign staff. Some of them said they don’t want to meet Biden as long as he opposes a ceasefire. The “lesser evil” argument is a wash if Biden is perceived as complicit in a potential genocide. In other news, Nancy Pelosi this morning gave the absolute worst take. Accuses mostly Democrat pro-ceasefire protesters of being backed by the Russians. When all else fails, Dem leaders blame Putin. They’ll say anything to avoid holding war criminal Netanyahu accountable. BTW, 50% of Dems believe Israel is attempting a genocide in Gaza. Not sure how Biden and Pelosi thread the needle of holding their coalition together in spite of the events in the Middle East. ’50% of Biden voters say Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, poll finds’www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1Lots of words. You misrepresented the clip. Own it.
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Post by mrsmlh on Jan 28, 2024 11:05:09 GMT -5
I hope they meet with Biden and convince him that helping Israel commit genocide is going to cost him the election.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 28, 2024 11:12:20 GMT -5
Some of them said they don’t want to meet Biden as long as he opposes a ceasefire. The “lesser evil” argument is a wash if Biden is perceived as complicit in a potential genocide. In other news, Nancy Pelosi this morning gave the absolute worst take. Accuses mostly Democrat pro-ceasefire protesters of being backed by the Russians. When all else fails, Dem leaders blame Putin. They’ll say anything to avoid holding war criminal Netanyahu accountable. BTW, 50% of Dems believe Israel is attempting a genocide in Gaza. Not sure how Biden and Pelosi thread the needle of holding their coalition together in spite of the events in the Middle East. ’50% of Biden voters say Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, poll finds’www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1Lots of words. You misrepresented the clip. Own it. No. You did that. People can watch and decide for themselves. The people in Dearborn aren't upset about a procedural issue or scheduling. The people quoted in the clip clearly said they're not even interested in discussing support for Biden in the next election so long as he stays the course on his current policies in Gaza.
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 11:20:25 GMT -5
Lots of words. You misrepresented the clip. Own it. No. You did that. People can watch and decide for themselves. The people in Dearborn aren't upset about a procedural issue or scheduling. The people quoted in the clip clearly said they're not even interested in discussing support for Biden in the next election so long as he stays the course on his current policies in Gaza. 6 people were interviewed. 1 said he wouldn't meet w Biden Misrepresentation. On brand.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 28, 2024 11:31:33 GMT -5
No. You did that. People can watch and decide for themselves. The people in Dearborn aren't upset about a procedural issue or scheduling. The people quoted in the clip clearly said they're not even interested in discussing support for Biden in the next election so long as he stays the course on his current policies in Gaza. 6 people were interviewed. 1 said he wouldn't meet w Biden Misrepresentation. On brand. Your partisan blindness is on brand. They're not interested in meeting with Biden's "campaign staff" or Biden himself until he changes course. Others can watch and decide for themselves or read the article below: 'Not welcome here': Arab leaders cancel Dearborn meeting with Biden campaign manager
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Post by JoyinMudville on Jan 28, 2024 12:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 12:51:14 GMT -5
There you go again. I am talking about the CBS clip and how you misrepresented it. You did. Other links don't change that. Fire. Aim. Ready. Again.
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 13:03:32 GMT -5
I hope they meet with Biden and convince him that helping Israel commit genocide is going to cost him the election. I don't think it will cost him the election. Biden needs to get ugly with Netanyahu. N is dangerous. He's analogous to Trump in that he'll face serious criminal charges once out of office. He's singularly focused on saving his own ass. Blinken or backchannels need to deliver message to the rest of the Israeli govt: ceasefire or no more $.
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Post by msmaggie on Jan 28, 2024 13:07:22 GMT -5
Biden is polling far worse currently than Obama or Trump were at any point in their presidencies. Biden also doesn’t have the die hard base of support that Obama had and Trump has. You actually have valid point here. He should be blasting Trump out of the water at this point. Support for Biden is lukewarm and I think much of that is because many people will hold thier nose and vote against Trump. The irony here is the GOP is holding on like grim death to the one candidate who is likely to lose to Biden. It defies common sense. Craven I get. Party over country I get. I just am puzzled by stupid.
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Post by mrsmlh on Jan 28, 2024 13:17:35 GMT -5
I hope they meet with Biden and convince him that helping Israel commit genocide is going to cost him the election. I don't think it will cost him the election. Biden needs to get ugly with Netanyahu. N is dangerous. He's analogous to Trump in that he'll face serious criminal charges once out of office. He's singularly focused on saving his own ass. Blinken or backchannels need to deliver message to the rest of the Israeli govt: ceasefire or no more $. I hope you're right about it costing him the election. So far all the younger (under 50) ones in my family say they will not vote for him if he doesn't call for a ceasefire.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 28, 2024 13:19:06 GMT -5
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Post by michiganjoe on Jan 28, 2024 13:28:41 GMT -5
Biden is polling far worse currently than Obama or Trump were at any point in their presidencies. Biden is presently about 5 below Obama's third year average and 2 below Trump's (Gallup aggregate).
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