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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 8:23:12 GMT -5
I'm curios, with the last couple of weeks coming, will these protestors just close up camp and walk away? Aren't students required to leave campus right after finals and/or commencement day? I’ve read an interview with some students. They’re saying they will continue the protests this Fall if necessary. Outside of college activism, I expect protests to continue in the general public throughout the summer. Unless there’s a ceasefire in Gaza soon. They will need to take it off campus then. Aren't students required to leave campus at the end of a semester.... unless of course, they are there for summer classes. I know my son was and the window to remove his belongings was very short. One argument has been, how can they trespass if they are students. That will not be the case at the end of the semester and there will be more arrests. They are disrupting classes SF. Be honest. If they had to go virtual, that alone is disruption. One thing we learned during COVID is that students do better with in person learning. Some campuses have had to cancel commencements. That is devastating for those that have worked so hard to graduate.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 8:39:56 GMT -5
I’ve read an interview with some students. They’re saying they will continue the protests this Fall if necessary. Outside of college activism, I expect protests to continue in the general public throughout the summer. Unless there’s a ceasefire in Gaza soon. They will need to take it off campus then. Aren't students required to leave campus at the end of a semester.... unless of course, they are there for summer classes. I know my son was and the window to remove his belongings was very short. One argument has been, how can they trespass if they are students. That will not be the case at the end of the semester and there will be more arrests. They are disrupting classes SF. Be honest. If they had to go virtual, that alone is disruption. One thing we learned during COVID is that students do better with in person learning. Some campuses have had to cancel commencements. That is devastating for those that have worked so hard to graduate. No one is being forced to take virtual classes. It’s optional at Columbia. I haven’t heard or seen any examples to support the claim that classes are being disrupted. In the 1960s, Boomers took faculty members hostage and locked themselves in classrooms. The GenZ’ers are far more tame than their grandparents. These protests have been very peaceful except for a few tense moments with police or counter protesters. I’m sure they will all go home when the semester ends. But protests may return in the Fall depending on what happens in the Middle East.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 8:48:01 GMT -5
They will need to take it off campus then. Aren't students required to leave campus at the end of a semester.... unless of course, they are there for summer classes. I know my son was and the window to remove his belongings was very short. One argument has been, how can they trespass if they are students. That will not be the case at the end of the semester and there will be more arrests. They are disrupting classes SF. Be honest. If they had to go virtual, that alone is disruption. One thing we learned during COVID is that students do better with in person learning. Some campuses have had to cancel commencements. That is devastating for those that have worked so hard to graduate. No one is being forced to take virtual classes. It’s optional at Columbia. I haven’t heard or seen any examples to support the claim that classes are being disrupted. In the 1960s, Boomers took faculty members hostage and locked themselves in classrooms. The GenZ’ers are far more tame than their grandparents. These protests have been very peaceful except for a few tense moments with police or counter protesters. I’m sure they will all go home when the semester ends. But protests may return in the Fall depending on what happens in the Middle East. Some students don't feel safe, therefore, virtual classes (in some cases) are an option. Not all classes. That is disruption. This isn't the 60's and the Boomers aren't involved, you have mentioned them a few times. Let that go. We agree, this is different. There will be no Kent State. Well, I do hope that Hamas will release the hostages so Israel will have to keep their word. The world is watching, Israel will have no choice. I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 8:57:00 GMT -5
No one is being forced to take virtual classes. It’s optional at Columbia. I haven’t heard or seen any examples to support the claim that classes are being disrupted. In the 1960s, Boomers took faculty members hostage and locked themselves in classrooms. The GenZ’ers are far more tame than their grandparents. These protests have been very peaceful except for a few tense moments with police or counter protesters. I’m sure they will all go home when the semester ends. But protests may return in the Fall depending on what happens in the Middle East. Some students don't feel safe, therefore, virtual classes (in some cases) are an option. Not all classes. That is disruption. This isn't the 60's and the Boomers aren't involved, you have mentioned them a few times. Let that go. We agree, this is different. There will be no Kent State. We don't know that. Some people are very unhinged about these students. I worry about the safety of students on both sides of this issue. Also, just as most people conceded that the anti-Vietnam war protesters were right years later, the same will happen with these students. These anti-war students are on the Right side of history. They will be vindicated eventually. I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children. I'm not a hypocrite Cowboyz. I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Last weekend there was a neo-nazi march in West Virginia. If these guys walked down the street in my neighborhood, I would be angry and uncomfortable but also still support their Right to demonstrate in public. I'm consistent.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 9:07:12 GMT -5
Some students don't feel safe, therefore, virtual classes (in some cases) are an option. Not all classes. That is disruption. This isn't the 60's and the Boomers aren't involved, you have mentioned them a few times. Let that go. We agree, this is different. There will be no Kent State. We don't know that. Some people are very unhinged about these students. I worry about the safety of students on both sides of this issue. Also, just as most people conceded that the anti-Vietnam war protesters were right years later, the same will happen with these students. These anti-war students are on the Right side of history. They will be vindicated eventually. I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children. I'm not a hypocrite Cowboyz. I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Last weekend there was a neo-nazi march in West Virginia. If these guys walked down the street in my neighborhood, I would be angry and uncomfortable but also still support their Right to demonstrate in public. I'm consistent. Ironically those neo-Nazis you'd be angry about are on the same page as the pro-Hamas protests at the universities. You SURE they're on the right side of history? 'Cause I don't think the October 7 massacre is anywhere close to being on the right side of history. Kinda feels like some NAZI final solution evil to me.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 9:12:36 GMT -5
We don't know that. Some people are very unhinged about these students. I worry about the safety of students on both sides of this issue. Also, just as most people conceded that the anti-Vietnam war protesters were right years later, the same will happen with these students. These anti-war students are on the Right side of history. They will be vindicated eventually. I'm not a hypocrite Cowboyz. I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Last weekend there was a neo-nazi march in West Virginia. If these guys walked down the street in my neighborhood, I would be angry and uncomfortable but also still support their Right to demonstrate in public. I'm consistent. Ironically those neo-Nazis you'd be angry about are on the same page as the pro-Hamas protests at the universities. You SURE they're on the right side of history? 'Cause I don't think the October 7 massacre is anywhere close to being on the right side of history. Kinda feels like some NAZI final solution evil to me. George Soros (Jewish) and a bunch of Jewish college students who oppose Israel's genocide in Gaza are in league with Hamas. Don't make me laugh so hard. It's too early. You are entitled to disagree with their cause but everyone has the Right to freely express their opinions in America. In no other circumstance would we tolerate the leader of a foreign government insulting our youth.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 9:24:23 GMT -5
Ironically those neo-Nazis you'd be angry about are on the same page as the pro-Hamas protests at the universities. You SURE they're on the right side of history? 'Cause I don't think the October 7 massacre is anywhere close to being on the right side of history. Kinda feels like some NAZI final solution evil to me. George Soros (Jewish) and a bunch of Jewish college students who oppose Israel's genocide in Gaza are in league with Hamas. Don't make me laugh so hard. It's too early. You are entitled to disagree with their cause but everyone has the Right to freely express their opinions in America. In no other circumstance would we tolerate the leader of a foreign government insulting our youth. Soros in an atheist: ffrf.org/publications/day/george-soros/Lots of ignorant kids on these campuses have been told lots of lies about the Palestinians. Believing them just makes them dupes. Not virtuous. We tolerate foreign leaders ridiculing American youth all the time. And A LOT of them deserve it. Especially when they're calling for a forever intifada.
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Post by alienrace on Apr 29, 2024 9:26:51 GMT -5
I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Blocking traffic, disrupting classes, trespassing, intimidating other people, screaming at people trying to eat in a restaurant, these are not examples of speech or expression, and they aren't something that people have the right to do without repercussion.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 29, 2024 9:30:13 GMT -5
They will need to take it off campus then. Aren't students required to leave campus at the end of a semester.... unless of course, they are there for summer classes. I know my son was and the window to remove his belongings was very short. One argument has been, how can they trespass if they are students. That will not be the case at the end of the semester and there will be more arrests. They are disrupting classes SF. Be honest. If they had to go virtual, that alone is disruption. One thing we learned during COVID is that students do better with in person learning. Some campuses have had to cancel commencements. That is devastating for those that have worked so hard to graduate. No one is being forced to take virtual classes. It’s optional at Columbia. That's simply not true provost.columbia.edu/news/guidelines-teaching-student-accommodations-and-staff-campus
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 9:32:47 GMT -5
George Soros (Jewish) and a bunch of Jewish college students who oppose Israel's genocide in Gaza are in league with Hamas. Don't make me laugh so hard. It's too early. You are entitled to disagree with their cause but everyone has the Right to freely express their opinions in America. In no other circumstance would we tolerate the leader of a foreign government insulting our youth. Soros in an atheist: ffrf.org/publications/day/george-soros/You don't have to be religious to be Jewish. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish. Bigots (people who spread anti-semitic conspiracy theories) don't get to decide who is or isn't Jewish.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 9:36:12 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 9:37:46 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 9:38:40 GMT -5
You don't have to be religious to be Jewish. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish. Bigots (people who spread anti-semitic conspiracy theories) don't get to decide who is or isn't Jewish. Nice try, but he identifies as an Atheist. Does that make him a bigot?
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 9:50:49 GMT -5
That's City College in NYC, not Columbia or UT-Austin. There are protests at over 100 colleges around the country now. Israel has lost the next generation of US leaders. They are trying to use brute force to shut down the biggest anti-war movement against Israel that this country has ever seen. And "Intifada" just means 'uprising': Forward Magazine: Intifada connotes an uprising against an oppressor. But that’s a relatively new meaning for the word, which comes from a verb root meaning “to shake off” or “dust off.” It only acquired its revolutionary implications during the Iraqi Intifada in 1952, a series of strikes and riots protesting the monarchy at the time. In Arabic, Sawaie said, it is also used to talk about the Arab Spring, and other revolts against oppressive regimes.
But for many people today, the word intifada is inextricably tied to the First and Second Intifadas, Palestinian uprisings in the 1980s and early 2000s.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 10:20:34 GMT -5
Some students don't feel safe, therefore, virtual classes (in some cases) are an option. Not all classes. That is disruption. This isn't the 60's and the Boomers aren't involved, you have mentioned them a few times. Let that go. We agree, this is different. There will be no Kent State. We don't know that. Some people are very unhinged about these students. I worry about the safety of students on both sides of this issue. Also, just as most people conceded that the anti-Vietnam war protesters were right years later, the same will happen with these students. These anti-war students are on the Right side of history. They will be vindicated eventually. I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children. I'm not a hypocrite Cowboyz. I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Last weekend there was a neo-nazi march in West Virginia. If these guys walked down the street in my neighborhood, I would be angry and uncomfortable but also still support their Right to demonstrate in public. I'm consistent. What is your definition of a peaceful protest?
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 10:40:45 GMT -5
We don't know that. Some people are very unhinged about these students. I worry about the safety of students on both sides of this issue. Also, just as most people conceded that the anti-Vietnam war protesters were right years later, the same will happen with these students. These anti-war students are on the Right side of history. They will be vindicated eventually. I'm not a hypocrite Cowboyz. I support free speech consistently whether I agree with the cause or not. People have to stop putting conditions on Freedom of Speech. The Rights of free expression are the same whether you agree with the cause or not. Last weekend there was a neo-nazi march in West Virginia. If these guys walked down the street in my neighborhood, I would be angry and uncomfortable but also still support their Right to demonstrate in public. I'm consistent. What is your definition of a peaceful protest? A protest where there's no violence and people peacefully assemble. What other definition is there?
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 10:49:56 GMT -5
That's City College in NYC, not Columbia or UT-Austin. There are protests at over 100 colleges around the country now. Israel has lost the next generation of US leaders. They are trying to use brute force to shut down the biggest anti-war movement against Israel that this country has ever seen. And "Intifada" just means 'uprising': Forward Magazine: Intifada connotes an uprising against an oppressor. But that’s a relatively new meaning for the word, which comes from a verb root meaning “to shake off” or “dust off.” It only acquired its revolutionary implications during the Iraqi Intifada in 1952, a series of strikes and riots protesting the monarchy at the time. In Arabic, Sawaie said, it is also used to talk about the Arab Spring, and other revolts against oppressive regimes.
But for many people today, the word intifada is inextricably tied to the First and Second Intifadas, Palestinian uprisings in the 1980s and early 2000s.
The way intefada has always been carried out in Israel has been grotesquely violent. If that's the language you're adopting, you're calling for violence.
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Post by alienrace on Apr 29, 2024 10:51:06 GMT -5
You don't have to be religious to be Jewish. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish. Pretty sure yeah, you do have to be religious to be Jewish since Judaism is a religion, not a race.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 10:52:21 GMT -5
That's City College in NYC, not Columbia or UT-Austin. There are protests at over 100 colleges around the country now. Israel has lost the next generation of US leaders. They are trying to use brute force to shut down the biggest anti-war movement against Israel that this country has ever seen. And "Intifada" just means 'uprising': Forward Magazine: Intifada connotes an uprising against an oppressor. But that’s a relatively new meaning for the word, which comes from a verb root meaning “to shake off” or “dust off.” It only acquired its revolutionary implications during the Iraqi Intifada in 1952, a series of strikes and riots protesting the monarchy at the time. In Arabic, Sawaie said, it is also used to talk about the Arab Spring, and other revolts against oppressive regimes.
But for many people today, the word intifada is inextricably tied to the First and Second Intifadas, Palestinian uprisings in the 1980s and early 2000s.
The way intefada has always been carried out in Israel has been grotesquely violent. If that's the language you're adopting, you're calling for violence. The first Intifada was mostly non-violent on the Palestinian side as the article I shared noted. Other people's ignorance is not my problem.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 11:00:59 GMT -5
You don't have to be religious to be Jewish. If your mother is Jewish, you're Jewish. Pretty sure yeah, you do have to be religious to be Jewish since Judaism is a religion, not a race. Technically true. For example, my grandfather converted to Judaism and was an observant Jew. But it's also true that if you're mother is Jewish, you are considered Jewish. No conversion necessary: "According to traditional Jewish law, a person’s Jewish status is passed down through the mother."www.jewishboston.com/read/ive-heard-that-judaism-is-passed-down-through-the-mother-is-it-true-does-it-matter/And there are lots of people who identify as "culturally Jewish" (born into Jewish families) but not observant of the religion. The whole question of who "is or isn't" Jewish has sprung as a byproduct of people attempting to discredit Jewish students and activists who are participating in the pro-Palestine protests.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 11:01:39 GMT -5
The way intefada has always been carried out in Israel has been grotesquely violent. If that's the language you're adopting, you're calling for violence. The first Intifada was mostly non-violent on the Palestinian side as the article I shared noted. Other people's ignorance is not my problem. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_IntifadaThe problem with most ignorant people is they think they aren't. Of course this is how we get buffoons standing in front of burning buildings talking about "firey but mostly peaceful protests."
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 11:03:50 GMT -5
The first Intifada was mostly non-violent on the Palestinian side as the article I shared noted. Other people's ignorance is not my problem. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_IntifadaThe problem with most ignorant people is they think they aren't. Of course this is how we get buffoons standing in front of burning buildings talking about "firey but mostly peaceful protests." Again, I said "mostly" non-violent. I didn't say it was universally peaceful resistance to Israel's occupation. I go out of my way to not speak in absolutes because there are always exceptions...
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 11:07:54 GMT -5
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_IntifadaThe problem with most ignorant people is they think they aren't. Of course this is how we get buffoons standing in front of burning buildings talking about "firey but mostly peaceful protests." Again, I said "mostly" non-violent. I didn't say it was universally peaceful resistance to Israel's occupation. I go out of my way to not speak in absolutes because there are always exceptions... Uh huh. So the violence was "widespread" but it was still "mostly non-violent." RRIIIIGGHHT
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 11:11:20 GMT -5
I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children. This is a fantastic question for anyone trying to figure out whether or not to spend six figures on an education. Whatever this protest is, it won't help anyone launch a career.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 11:19:46 GMT -5
Again, I said "mostly" non-violent. I didn't say it was universally peaceful resistance to Israel's occupation. I go out of my way to not speak in absolutes because there are always exceptions... Uh huh. So the violence was "widespread" but it was still "mostly non-violent." RRIIIIGGHHT See below from a Jewish-American news outlet: Daniel Lefkowitz, a professor of language and culture in the Middle East at the University of Virginia who lived in Israel for several years in the early 2000s, hypothesized that, for most Palestinians, the word brings up memories of the First Intifada, a largely non-violent Palestinian protest largely involving work stoppages, boycotts and demonstrations. Some Palestinians also attacked Israelis, mostly with small weapons such as rocks or Molotov cocktails, and on some occasions with firearms or grenades.
“The intifada, the shaking off, was a metaphor of effective claiming of a voice, presenting a situation to the world’s audience, but not engaging in the spectacular violence of the PLO, like plane hijacking,” he said. “So that was seen as a very progressive movement.”
“It was the David-Goliath representation — stones against machine guns,” he added.
But for Israelis, and many Jews, the word brings up memories, instead, of the Second Intifada, a far bloodier Palestinian uprising characterized by suicide bombings on buses and at cafés that killed about 1,000 Israeli civilians.
forward.com/culture/573654/intifada-arabic-israeli-hamas-war-meaning-linguistics/This debate reminds me of the "Black Lives Matter" vs "All Lives Matter" stuff. Phrases can mean different things to different people.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 11:25:15 GMT -5
What is your definition of a peaceful protest? A protest where there's no violence and people peacefully assemble. What other definition is there? First, if I were planning a protest and I wanted it to be peaceful and respected, I would begin with learning and following the polices established for protests, whether public or private land. Filling out proper paperwork and getting required permits. Then I would follow those policies established, doing otherwise leads to anger and possible law enforcement involvement. Otherwise, your peaceful protest will likely become contentious. These may not be violent (yet) but they are not peaceful because they are disruptive and antagonistic.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 11:27:34 GMT -5
A protest where there's no violence and people peacefully assemble. What other definition is there? First, if I were planning a protest and I wanted it to be peaceful and respected, I would begin with learning and following the polices established for protests, whether public or private land. Filling out proper paperwork and getting required permits. Then I would follow those policies established, doing otherwise leads to anger and possible law enforcement involvement. Otherwise, your peaceful protest will likely become contentious. These may not be violent (yet) but they are not peaceful because they are disruptive and antagonistic. We agree that the demonstrations are non-violent at least. And during the Civil Rights movement, activists frequently violated local laws on segregation in order to advance their cause (ie Rosa Parks). Sometimes violating the rules or laws is the point. These demonstrations wouldn't be a problem for most if they were protesting against Hamas, Russia, or Iran. A lot of folks are just upset that they are protesting against Israel.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 11:28:18 GMT -5
I wonder what your tone would be if this were Pro Israeli protests that were disrupting a college education you fund for one of your children. This is a fantastic question for anyone trying to figure out whether or not to spend six figures on an education. Whatever this protest is, it won't help anyone launch a career. And ruining the experience for the students who do not want to be involved. Imagine preparing to go see your child graduate and then you can't because of a "peaceful protest" on campus.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 11:33:09 GMT -5
First, if I were planning a protest and I wanted it to be peaceful and respected, I would begin with learning and following the polices established for protests, whether public or private land. Filling out proper paperwork and getting required permits. Then I would follow those policies established, doing otherwise leads to anger and possible law enforcement involvement. Otherwise, your peaceful protest will likely become contentious. These may not be violent (yet) but they are not peaceful because they are disruptive and antagonistic. We agree that the demonstrations are non-violent at least. These demonstrations wouldn't be a problem for most if they were protesting against Hamas, Russia, or Iran. A lot of folks are just upset that they are protesting against Israel. Well, they are non violent. They would be less disruptive if the protestors would listen to administration and police. Yes, I can understand why people would be upset, especially people who support Israeli, that's how these things work.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 11:39:22 GMT -5
Uh huh. So the violence was "widespread" but it was still "mostly non-violent." RRIIIIGGHHT See below from a Jewish-American news outlet: Daniel Lefkowitz, a professor of language and culture in the Middle East at the University of Virginia who lived in Israel for several years in the early 2000s, hypothesized that, for most Palestinians, the word brings up memories of the First Intifada, a largely non-violent Palestinian protest largely involving work stoppages, boycotts and demonstrations. Some Palestinians also attacked Israelis, mostly with small weapons such as rocks or Molotov cocktails, and on some occasions with firearms or grenades.
“The intifada, the shaking off, was a metaphor of effective claiming of a voice, presenting a situation to the world’s audience, but not engaging in the spectacular violence of the PLO, like plane hijacking,” he said. “So that was seen as a very progressive movement.”
“It was the David-Goliath representation — stones against machine guns,” he added.
But for Israelis, and many Jews, the word brings up memories, instead, of the Second Intifada, a far bloodier Palestinian uprising characterized by suicide bombings on buses and at cafés that killed about 1,000 Israeli civilians.
forward.com/culture/573654/intifada-arabic-israeli-hamas-war-meaning-linguistics/This debate reminds me of the "Black Lives Matter" vs "All Lives Matter" stuff. Phrases can mean different things to different people. Yeah... like "widespread violence" can mean the same as "mostly peaceful."
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