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Post by mrsmlh on Apr 26, 2024 18:07:52 GMT -5
He apologized for his dumb comment. His comment is illustrative of a bigger problem with this movement that many of us have been pointing out since October 8th So it appears that it's okay to wish death on Palestinians for Hamas' actions on 10/7 but not on Israelis for their actions since 10/7.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 26, 2024 18:42:18 GMT -5
"Level the place" – Lindsey Graham
"Israel can bounce the rubble in Gaza" – Tom Cotton
"We’re going to turn that into a parking lot" - Max Miller
Brian Mast comparing Palestinian civilians to Nazis
"Goodbye to Palestine" - Chuck Fleischmanntheintercept.com/2024/04/04/republicans-congress-palestine-israel-double-standard/No consequences or apologies for the above calls for violence^ No national media coverage of the unhinged counter-protests outside of the Columbia U campus: There’s lots of bad behavior on all sides for sure. I don’t doubt or deny that. There’s also lots of good behavior and multi-faith unity that is being ignored because it doesn’t fit into a false political narrative…
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 26, 2024 21:32:05 GMT -5
His comment is illustrative of a bigger problem with this movement that many of us have been pointing out since October 8th So it appears that it's okay to wish death on Palestinians for Hamas' actions on 10/7 but not on Israelis for their actions since 10/7. I don't think I've said that anywhere.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 26, 2024 21:34:22 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 7:29:47 GMT -5
The objective of the campus protests is to get colleges to cut ties with Israel and over 100 schools around the country have joined the movement.
These students are fearless and won’t be intimidated by the police or smears about their movement.
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Post by mrsmlh on Apr 27, 2024 7:38:31 GMT -5
So it appears that it's okay to wish death on Palestinians for Hamas' actions on 10/7 but not on Israelis for their actions since 10/7. I don't think I've said that anywhere. Maybe not you and not in so many words but definitely implied by the reactions to the student protesters, congresspersons and other authority figures
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 27, 2024 8:06:46 GMT -5
I don't think I've said that anywhere. Maybe not you and not in so many words but definitely implied by the reactions to the student protesters, congresspersons and other authority figures Well, this is a thread, the 2nd because the other one was shut down, about the pro-Palestinian movement and, in particular, the college protests. I don't think radical right wing Congressmen talking about 'nuking gaza' is at all helpful although are we surprised that the GOP is rabidly pro-Netanyahu? But, what many of us having been saying since October 8th is that some of the rhetoric coming from these protests, which they get from the organizations coordinating this activity, is borderline anti-semitic or not helpful to their overall cause. And, many of the people raising these concerns also have serious criticisms of the way that Netanyahu government has responded to the October 7 terrorist attack. You'll recall that in October you had people at universities ripping down posters of the Israelis being held hostage. There are some very legitimate questions about the slogan 'from the river to the sea' which is problematic. And, some of us have a problem with people calling a terrorist organization part of the 'resistance' or people referring to terrorist attacks against civilian shipping in international waters as a 'genocide tax'. Again, this is the statement that National Students for Justice in Palestine put out in the immediate aftermath of the worst pogrom against Jews since the Holocaust I'm not going to stand with people who view butchering children in front of their parents as a 'historic win'
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 9:23:21 GMT -5
www.politico.com/news/2024/04/27/republican-states-colleges-free-speech-israel-gaza-complicated-00154702I was never a fan of the “Safe spaces” concept. Those of us who consistently defend Freedom of Speech and agreed with the Right’s criticisms of “Safe Spaces” on college campuses, are correctly disappointed that most Rightwing Free Speech advocates are extreme hypocrites. There are no exceptions or “Buts” when it comes to the First Amendment. Everyone has the Right to express their opinions in public whether others find them offensive or not. Lastly, this country has a long history of protecting Far-Right groups like the Proud Boys and Neo-Nazis while cracking down harshly on Leftwing activists. So this is nothing new and GenZ is learning valuable lessons about how “Freedom ain’t free”. Sometimes people have to sacrifice their careers and their bodies for what they believe is right…
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 27, 2024 9:31:04 GMT -5
www.politico.com/news/2024/04/27/republican-states-colleges-free-speech-israel-gaza-complicated-00154702I was never a fan of the “Safe spaces” concept. Those of us who consistently defend Freedom of Speech and agreed with the Right’s criticisms of “Safe Spaces” on college campuses, are correctly disappointed that most Rightwing Free Speech advocates are extreme hypocrites. There are no exceptions or “Buts” when it comes to the First Amendment. Everyone has the Right to express their opinions in public whether others find them offensive or not. Lastly, this country has a long history of protecting Far-Right groups like the Proud Boys and Neo-Nazis while cracking down harshly on Leftwing activists. So this is nothing new and GenZ is learning valuable lessons about how “Freedom ain’t free”. Sometimes people have to sacrifice their careers and their bodies for what they believe is right… Currently several of the "Proud Boys" are either doing time or facing charges for their actions on J6. While these protestors, so far anyway, are enjoying catch and release policing. Same with the ANTIFA and BLM groups in 2020. So no. We are not protecting far right groups. We are protecting left wing groups while we throw the book at the Proud Boys. Which makes the hypocrites here are you and your fellow lefties. Fairness would be tracking down everyone who walked through these protests at UT and Columbia to the ends of the earth and imprisoning them for years while they wait for their cases to get to the top of the docket.
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Post by mrsmlh on Apr 27, 2024 9:50:26 GMT -5
Maybe not you and not in so many words but definitely implied by the reactions to the student protesters, congresspersons and other authority figures Well, this is a thread, the 2nd because the other one was shut down, about the pro-Palestinian movement and, in particular, the college protests. I don't think radical right wing Congressmen talking about 'nuking gaza' is at all helpful although are we surprised that the GOP is rabidly pro-Netanyahu? But, what many of us having been saying since October 8th is that some of the rhetoric coming from these protests, which they get from the organizations coordinating this activity, is borderline anti-semitic or not helpful to their overall cause. And, many of the people raising these concerns also have serious criticisms of the way that Netanyahu government has responded to the October 7 terrorist attack. You'll recall that in October you had people at universities ripping down posters of the Israelis being held hostage. There are some very legitimate questions about the slogan 'from the river to the sea' which is problematic. And, some of us have a problem with people calling a terrorist organization part of the 'resistance' or people referring to terrorist attacks against civilian shipping in international waters as a 'genocide tax'. Again, this is the statement that National Students for Justice in Palestine put out in the immediate aftermath of the worst pogrom against Jews since the Holocaust I'm not going to stand with people who view butchering children in front of their parents as a 'historic win' But you stand with Israelis who are doing the same if not worse. You just believe the Israeli propaganda and not the truth of what is actually happening there.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 27, 2024 9:54:26 GMT -5
Currently several of the "Proud Boys" are either doing time or facing charges for their actions on J6. And every time I think about them rotting in jail a smile crosses my lips. They are unAmerican insurrectionist pieces of bovine excrement. Comparing people convicted of seditious conspiracy and violence in their effort to overturn a free and fair election to these college kids is both disingenuous and offensive.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 27, 2024 9:55:00 GMT -5
Well, this is a thread, the 2nd because the other one was shut down, about the pro-Palestinian movement and, in particular, the college protests. I don't think radical right wing Congressmen talking about 'nuking gaza' is at all helpful although are we surprised that the GOP is rabidly pro-Netanyahu? But, what many of us having been saying since October 8th is that some of the rhetoric coming from these protests, which they get from the organizations coordinating this activity, is borderline anti-semitic or not helpful to their overall cause. And, many of the people raising these concerns also have serious criticisms of the way that Netanyahu government has responded to the October 7 terrorist attack. You'll recall that in October you had people at universities ripping down posters of the Israelis being held hostage. There are some very legitimate questions about the slogan 'from the river to the sea' which is problematic. And, some of us have a problem with people calling a terrorist organization part of the 'resistance' or people referring to terrorist attacks against civilian shipping in international waters as a 'genocide tax'. Again, this is the statement that National Students for Justice in Palestine put out in the immediate aftermath of the worst pogrom against Jews since the Holocaust I'm not going to stand with people who view butchering children in front of their parents as a 'historic win' But you stand with Israelis who are doing the same if not worse. You just believe the Israeli propaganda and not the truth of what is actually happening there. No, I don't.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 27, 2024 9:59:46 GMT -5
Currently several of the "Proud Boys" are either doing time or facing charges for their actions on J6. And every time I think about them rotting in jail a smile crosses my lips. They are unAmerican insurrectionist pieces of bovine excrement. Comparing people convicted of seditious conspiracy and violence in their effort to overturn a free and fair election to these college kids is both disingenuous and offensive. Lol. Tell it to SF. He's the one who keeps bringing up the Proud Boys in relation to this.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 10:37:45 GMT -5
And every time I think about them rotting in jail a smile crosses my lips. They are unAmerican insurrectionist pieces of bovine excrement. Comparing people convicted of seditious conspiracy and violence in their effort to overturn a free and fair election to these college kids is both disingenuous and offensive. Lol. Tell it to SF. He's the one who keeps bringing up the Proud Boys in relation to this. The Proud Boys were arrested for their participation in J6. Outside of that example, they’ve been allowed to peacefully protest and protected by the police in many cases. Including the counter-protests outside of Columbia U where they’re shouting at and harassing Columbia students.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 27, 2024 10:47:26 GMT -5
And every time I think about them rotting in jail a smile crosses my lips. They are unAmerican insurrectionist pieces of bovine excrement. Comparing people convicted of seditious conspiracy and violence in their effort to overturn a free and fair election to these college kids is both disingenuous and offensive. Lol. Tell it to SF. He's the one who keeps bringing up the Proud Boys in relation to this. That's because one of them has repeatedly been spotted at Columbia an actual outside agitator
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 27, 2024 10:51:20 GMT -5
Lol. Tell it to SF. He's the one who keeps bringing up the Proud Boys in relation to this. The Proud Boys were arrested for their participation in J6. Outside of that example, they’ve been allowed to peacefully protest and protected by the police in many cases. Including the counter-protests outside of Columbia U where they’re shouting at and harassing Columbia students. But that's the defining example of how this country treats right wing protests. The left can't round up the Proud Boys at the pro-Hamas demonstrations without completely giving the game away. It worked for the J6 crowd because there weren't any lefties there. We should be treating all of these protests the same: either we round these pro-Hamas goons up like a granny walking through the Capitol on J6, or they're being protected in ways that conservatives aren't.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 10:56:39 GMT -5
Rep. Massie is one of the few consistent leaders in the Republican party on matters of Speech and civil liberties.
I disagree with his views on guns and taxes but respect his consistent defense of civil liberties.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 13:04:59 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Apr 27, 2024 14:01:45 GMT -5
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 28, 2024 1:49:43 GMT -5
Welp... this upcoming 2024 riot season is going to be interesting.
In just a few weeks we'll have a fresh crop of fat girls with brand new gender studies degrees, male pronouns, short croped green hair, too many facial piercings to get a date or a job, and student loans they'll have to start repaying. They'll need something to do, so naturally they'll be out blocking streets, and maybe setting a few fires in support of a bloodthirsty terrorist organization that would throw them off a rooftop if they ever visited Gaza.
Why? Because this is what "liberals" are now.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Apr 28, 2024 2:34:35 GMT -5
A really interesting perspective from a lawyer who's done a lot of pro bono work for activists.
And you'll note the reference to 'time and place restrictions' which is a core concept in free speech law
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Post by msmaggie on Apr 28, 2024 7:33:10 GMT -5
What a goof.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 28, 2024 17:06:19 GMT -5
I wish more American politicians had the stones to call out Netanyahu’s BS like this. Kudos to Rep. Summer Lee for standing up for American college students.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 6:01:01 GMT -5
So we're in week 2 or 3 of these "occupations" in support of Hamas and intifada on American college campuses.
"We are Hamas" voices have had their say, and have been heard.
Classes are being disrupted, graduation ceremonies are being cancelled, the work that is the fundamental purpose of a university - educating students - is being destroyed. These places are losing future revenue... because who wants to study medicine, or engineering, or business, or law in a place where you can't go to class because of protests?
Vandalism and property destruction is taking place. Hate speech is rampant in the protests. A few years back in Charlotte, VA antisemitic protesters put on their khakis, picked up some tiki torches and walked around shouting "Jews will not replace us!" for an hour or two. The exact same mentality is on display now, only its been a couple weeks instead of a few hours.
The free speech arguments aren't legitimate anymore. The universities have a choice: put an end to them, or let the protests put an end to the universities.
Arrest them all, and treat them like a "MAGA meemaw" strolling through the Capitol on J6.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 6:31:32 GMT -5
Fact-check:
- Classes are not being disrupted.
- Property is not being destroyed or damaged.
- The only violence so far has been initiated by police officers when they aggressively arrest demonstrators.
- Protesters on both sides are saying very nasty and hateful things to each other.
- The First Amendment protects free speech in public areas and common areas.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 7:13:52 GMT -5
Fact-check: - Classes are not being disrupted. - Property is not being destroyed or damaged. - The only violence so far has been initiated by police officers when they aggressively arrest demonstrators. - Protesters on both sides are saying very nasty and hateful things to each other. - The First Amendment protects free speech in public areas and common areas. 1) If classes have to be on line, they're disrupted. Graduation ceremonies have been canceled too. 2) You're saying there's been no vandalism? That's ridiculous. Nevermind the mess that is a tent city. 3) When the police tell you to leave because you're trespassing, and you resist, that violence was initiated by YOU. 4) The first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom to set up a tent city on a university campus. The latter turns into trespassing the moment the university decides that's what it is.
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Post by cowboyz on Apr 29, 2024 7:32:13 GMT -5
I'm curios, with the last couple of weeks coming, will these protestors just close up camp and walk away?
Aren't students required to leave campus right after finals and/or commencement day?
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 8:07:48 GMT -5
Fact-check: - Classes are not being disrupted. - Property is not being destroyed or damaged. - The only violence so far has been initiated by police officers when they aggressively arrest demonstrators. - Protesters on both sides are saying very nasty and hateful things to each other. - The First Amendment protects free speech in public areas and common areas. 1) If classes have to be on line, they're disrupted. Graduation ceremonies have been canceled too. 2) You're saying there's been no vandalism? That's ridiculous. Nevermind the mess that is a tent city. 3) When the police tell you to leave because you're trespassing, and you resist, that violence was initiated by YOU. 4) The first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom to set up a tent city on a university campus. The latter turns into trespassing the moment the university decides that's what it is. 1 - Columbia U is making virtual classes OPTIONAL for students who don’t feel comfortable coming onto campus. It’s not Virtual for all students. In any event, no classes have been disrupted by the protests. 2 - Please cite evidence of vandalism or property damage. I haven’t seen any examples so far. 3 and 4 - The police are giving unreasonable orders if they’re asking non-violent activists to disperse from public or common areas. Again, in Texas specifically, the law is that ANYONE, even non-students, can protest at public universities. Gov. Abbott is a liar and a hypocrite.
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Post by soulflower on Apr 29, 2024 8:12:05 GMT -5
I'm curios, with the last couple of weeks coming, will these protestors just close up camp and walk away? Aren't students required to leave campus right after finals and/or commencement day? I’ve read an interview with some students. They’re saying they will continue the protests this Fall if necessary. Outside of college activism, I expect protests to continue in the general public throughout the summer. Unless there’s a ceasefire in Gaza soon.
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Post by Ranger John on Apr 29, 2024 8:21:47 GMT -5
1) If classes have to be on line, they're disrupted. Graduation ceremonies have been canceled too. 2) You're saying there's been no vandalism? That's ridiculous. Nevermind the mess that is a tent city. 3) When the police tell you to leave because you're trespassing, and you resist, that violence was initiated by YOU. 4) The first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, it does not guarantee freedom to set up a tent city on a university campus. The latter turns into trespassing the moment the university decides that's what it is. 1 - Columbia U is making virtual classes OPTIONAL for students who don’t feel comfortable coming onto campus. It’s not Virtual for all students. In any event, no classes have been disrupted by the protests. 2 - Please cite evidence of vandalism or property damage. I haven’t seen any examples so far. 3 and 4 - The police are giving unreasonable orders if they’re asking non-violent activists to disperse from public or common areas. Again, in Texas specifically, the law is that ANYONE, even non-students, can protest at public universities. Gov. Abbott is a liar and a hypocrite. Let's start here: www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/tommy-trojan-statue-vandalism-cleaned-up-usc-continues-to-operate-at-restricted-access/3399461/A statue was vandalized at USC, campus is partially closed, and commencement is cancelled. www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2024/04/28/building-vandalized-emory-amid-protests-over-israel-hamas-war/At Emory, they've got a graffiti issue on multiple buildings. www.bostonherald.com/2024/04/26/tufts-university-tagged-with-pro-palestinian-messages-as-protesters-call-for-divestment-from-israel/Same at Tufts www.seattletimes.com/opinion/editorials/uw-must-take-action-after-protesters-vandalize-property-intimidate-students/And University of Washington. The list of vandalism and campus disruption is quite long and disturbing as quite a lot of the vandalism is racist. But go on and pretend it isn't happening. We appreciate the ridiculous lengths you're going to to deny and excuse criminal behavior. There is not a thing unreasonable in asking people to disburse from public areas, and then treating them like trespassers when they don't. This isn't a protest anymore. It's a squatter's camp.
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