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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 22, 2023 16:51:32 GMT -5
It isn't kind. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-world-is-ripping-the-ravens-for-their-reported-lamar-jackson-contract-offer/ar-AA16CMn0I don't know who Dov Kleiman is so I can't comment on his credibility. But he claims the Ravens' initial offer was $113M guaranteed, which they later raised to $133M. Another reporter claims she asked Lamar if $160M was correct and he replied the offer was $160M - $180M, which he declined. I do not know that he is worth top tier quarterback money until we see if he can develop a better passing game. But, then, he needs receivers (that can stay healthy and want to play here) before that can happen. He has a good o-line, now, but I believe needs to improve the speed at which he finds a passing target.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 25, 2023 13:36:05 GMT -5
It isn't kind. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-world-is-ripping-the-ravens-for-their-reported-lamar-jackson-contract-offer/ar-AA16CMn0I don't know who Dov Kleiman is so I can't comment on his credibility. But he claims the Ravens' initial offer was $113M guaranteed, which they later raised to $133M. Another reporter claims she asked Lamar if $160M was correct and he replied the offer was $160M - $180M, which he declined. I do not know that he is worth top tier quarterback money until we see if he can develop a better passing game. But, then, he needs receivers (that can stay healthy and want to play here) before that can happen. He has a good o-line, now, but I believe needs to improve the speed at which he finds a passing target. IMHO. Lamar was a great and briefly successful experiment. The run orientated offense at first exposure was a shock to the NFL defenses as they hadn't seen anything like it since the advent of the forward pass. And if we were 50 years in the past that style would have worked for more than one season. There is not doubt that Lamar is a very talented runner and improvisor. But in regards to throwing he is not someone that will take a team to the superbowl. Period. Further, lets face it there are a lot of egos, particularly at receiver and running back (see hissy fit after fumble) that is tied to $$$$$ because of stats. That high caliber skill players ^ get with a QB that can throw and not run. It is the reason why few receivers (in particular) don't want to play here. Lamar is the game the rest are window dressing. The Ravens would be smart to trade for a lot of high picks, maybe pick up a QB or go with what they got. Draft a good QB prospect and go from there. Yeah it will be a little painful But in the end...... would it be anymore painful than the last two season watching Lamar gimping around? Intersting point Preston made a few days back. That between injuries and covid etc. Lamar has been paid a full year for sitting in the training room. And sorry, his not showing up at the playoff game. Well, I dunno, but if I were a team mate that would kinda pxss me off.
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Post by alienrace on Jan 25, 2023 15:21:03 GMT -5
And sorry, his not showing up at the playoff game. Well, I dunno, but if I were a team mate that would kinda pxss me off. That wasn't his choice.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 25, 2023 16:25:51 GMT -5
And sorry, his not showing up at the playoff game. Well, I dunno, but if I were a team mate that would kinda pxss me off. That wasn't his choice. No, but if he's one of the sort of player who can't stay healthy... that is, in a way, a bust. If you expect top tier QB money you need to be a top tier QB, and Lamar, right now, is not.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 25, 2023 17:37:12 GMT -5
And sorry, his not showing up at the playoff game. Well, I dunno, but if I were a team mate that would kinda pxss me off. That wasn't his choice. Really? Ok, fill me in. I read anything in the Sun that has "Lamar" in the article, I saw nothing about it not being his choice. All I heard was that he wasn't there with no explanation. I am not doubting you. But could you tell me what I am missing here? Thanks.
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Post by alienrace on Jan 26, 2023 8:03:46 GMT -5
I am not doubting you. But could you tell me what I am missing here? Thanks. I don't have the link, but a teammate said that Lamar would have been there if he could have. A lot of times team doctors don't let players fly when they have anything involving swelling as it hinders recovery.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 26, 2023 15:25:53 GMT -5
I am not doubting you. But could you tell me what I am missing here? Thanks. I don't have the link, but a teammate said that Lamar would have been there if he could have. A lot of times team doctors don't let players fly when they have anything involving swelling as it hinders recovery. I have heard that. But that is for recent injuries. And if he is that 'bad' then they better go shopping for another QB IMO. If he had a great arm and no wheels that is one thing (see Joe Namath) but no arm and no wheels? And sorry, trains and limos still work. What is the penalty for BS in the NFL? 😄
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 26, 2023 16:24:37 GMT -5
I have heard that. But that is for recent injuries. And if he is that 'bad' then they better go shopping for another QB IMO. If he had a great arm and no wheels that is one thing (see Joe Namath) but no arm and no wheels? And sorry, trains and limos still work. What is the penalty for BS in the NFL? 😄 I can speak from experience when I hurt my knee years ago. If flying is a problem, hours of driving or riding a train is not an improvement.
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Post by alienrace on Jan 26, 2023 16:28:24 GMT -5
I have heard that. But that is for recent injuries. Yeah - because of swelling. Which he still had.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 26, 2023 18:07:33 GMT -5
I have heard that. But that is for recent injuries. And if he is that 'bad' then they better go shopping for another QB IMO. If he had a great arm and no wheels that is one thing (see Joe Namath) but no arm and no wheels? And sorry, trains and limos still work. What is the penalty for BS in the NFL? 😄 I can speak from experience when I hurt my knee years ago. If flying is a problem, hours of driving or riding a train is not an improvement. Dr. Yoda, Speaking from experience, I have had both knees screwed up my right knee playing varsity football in college and the left on the satellite circuit of the ATP. So I know a bit of what you speak. Yes agreed, flying a singular long distance flight, where the air pressure going up and down in the cabin, does cause bubbles and other issues on swollen tissues etc. This is not the case with ground level travel. I did a Google and it takes about 8 hours by car..... trains? Sorry Lamar is all about Lamar at this point IMO. Take the picks and say goodbye.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 26, 2023 18:16:12 GMT -5
I have heard that. But that is for recent injuries. Yeah - because of swelling. Which he still had. As I said to Yoda. I have extensive experience with this stuff. If he still has serious swelling after all this time..... then he should be under the knife and get it fixed. Period. So.... -Either he or management is covering it up, because his value goes down in negotiation of a contract with the Ravens, or management is thinking the same thing by covering for him. - Or everyone doesn't know what the f' their doing and both are hoping for a miracle. - Or we are going to see a 'back room deal' that SURPRISE SURPISE..... they will slap him with a franchise tag and SURPRISE SURPRISE.... he will go under the knife just before spring training and be lost for most if not all the season. In hopes that he will be worth something on the open market.... either for him or in picks for the team. Mark my words.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 18:35:02 GMT -5
This is a mess, yes Lamar is an elite QB, but injured or is he really? The man broke all kinds of NFL records, and made us successful. One issue is he was never given the right tools down field except for Andrews. If they pay Lamar they need to totally make sure that leg is healthy as well as his attitude to the Ravens.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 26, 2023 21:19:30 GMT -5
Dr. Yoda, Speaking from experience, I have had both knees screwed up my right knee playing varsity football in college and the left on the satellite circuit of the ATP. So I know a bit of what you speak. Yes agreed, flying a singular long distance flight, where the air pressure going up and down in the cabin, does cause bubbles and other issues on swollen tissues etc. This is not the case with ground level travel. I did a Google and it takes about 8 hours by car..... trains? Sorry Lamar is all about Lamar at this point IMO. Take the picks and say goodbye. Traveling by car or train does not cause the same problems vis a vis swelling as does traveling by air. But you do have to keep your leg bent for hours at a time. In my case, it grew progressively more painful the longer I could not stretch it out. A train would have been easier; a vacation car trip was very unpleasant because it was hours long. I do not know whether they should sign Lamar, or whether they even can. He may not wish to play here. I merely opine that him not traveling with the team is not sufficient reason for me to dismiss him. I would be more inclined to dismiss him if his salary demand, particularly the guarantees he expects, is comparable to what more experienced, proven quarterbacks have received. If he's smart he'll go for a shorter contract and work to prove himself by working to develop better passing skills. But that also depends on the Ravens (or some team) providing him to at least one decent long range threat, and it depends on them providing him with a coordinator who can design a good passing attack. Too much is uncertain at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2023 21:23:58 GMT -5
As a side note, Ravens mock draft has QB Anthony Richardson from Fla coming to the Ravens.
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Post by alienrace on Jan 27, 2023 8:00:49 GMT -5
As a side note, Ravens mock draft has QB Anthony Richardson from Fla coming to the Ravens. Zero chance that happens, and the guy who did the draft is a relative unknown who admitted it was throwing a dart out there. Many reasons they wouldn't actually do this.
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Post by pickle20 on Jan 27, 2023 9:04:46 GMT -5
I'd put the chances of Lamar staying at 75%.
Side note, I was at Jimmy's Seafood last night for an end-of-year tailgate party and met Jimmy Smith. Took a pic with him. Cool dude. Told him we were in the stadium for the Super Bowl and saw him break up that pass to Crabtree at the goalline.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 9:11:01 GMT -5
Well if you listen to the Ravens vips in interviews they all seem very confident Lamar will get a deal done to stay here. I do hope it happens as long as he's healthy and can play at the high level he's known for. If he does leave,who in hell is worth having that can help us be contenders again?
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Post by alienrace on Jan 27, 2023 9:55:01 GMT -5
Well if you listen to the Ravens vips in interviews they all seem very confident Lamar will get a deal done to stay here. I do hope it happens as long as he's healthy and can play at the high level he's known for. If he does leave,who in hell is worth having that can help us be contenders again? There isn't a plug-in solution that will be available that wouldn't require a reconfiguration of the offensive identity. Now that could always happen anyway, depending on the new OC. Derek Carr will be out there, and there could be a package deal to bring Devonta Adams with him and going to a more balanced offense, or even pass oriented. Jimmy Garropolo will also be available, and could be a game manager type QB, but he's had a number of durability concerns of his own. Aaron Rodgers possibly will be out there. But he's 40 - and his mental state isn't ideal (worried more about winning MVP's than Superbowls). None of these, aside from Carr would be relatively long term solutions. Ideally they re-sign Lamar. And I think they know this, and Lamar knows this. Had he not been injured, they'd probably be playing this weekend with a decent shot at winning. They surely would have won the game against Cincy. Probably would have beaten the Bills (remember the Ravens played the Bills earlier in the season and blew a big lead because the defense wasn't nearly as good as it was at the end of the season). Also remember that before Bateman, Lamar, and Duvernay were injured, the offense was near the top of the league in scoring. The lack of depth at receiver obviously hurt. Another blow was the loss of Ronnie Stanely for a good chunk of the season. I'm not really concerned about Lamar's durability. BOTH injuries were sustained in the pocket, or being chased from behind out of it due to piss-poor blocking, and any QB would have been injured. Heck Lamar has probably avoided injury as much or more than any QB who has been pressured as much as he has. The real durability concern I have is Ronnie Stanely. With him, they are a vastly better team than without. His successor needs to be found ASAP. This team is ready to win now. They led the division most of the season until Lamar was hurt. They still made the playoffs despite playing 2nd and 3rd string QB's. The defense looks like it could be dominant for some years to come. The run game is in terrific shape, and they have a trio of really good/great TE's. They need to find a stud vet WR. And they need Lamar. He is their best option by far to win now.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 27, 2023 12:22:16 GMT -5
Dr. Yoda, Speaking from experience, I have had both knees screwed up my right knee playing varsity football in college and the left on the satellite circuit of the ATP. So I know a bit of what you speak. Yes agreed, flying a singular long distance flight, where the air pressure going up and down in the cabin, does cause bubbles and other issues on swollen tissues etc. This is not the case with ground level travel. I did a Google and it takes about 8 hours by car..... trains? Sorry Lamar is all about Lamar at this point IMO. Take the picks and say goodbye. Traveling by car or train does not cause the same problems vis a vis swelling as does traveling by air. But you do have to keep your leg bent for hours at a time. In my case, it grew progressively more painful the longer I could not stretch it out. A train would have been easier; a vacation car trip was very unpleasant because it was hours long. I do not know whether they should sign Lamar, or whether they even can. He may not wish to play here. I merely opine that him not traveling with the team is not sufficient reason for me to dismiss him. I would be more inclined to dismiss him if his salary demand, particularly the guarantees he expects, is comparable to what more experienced, proven quarterbacks have received. If he's smart he'll go for a shorter contract and work to prove himself by working to develop better passing skills. But that also depends on the Ravens (or some team) providing him to at least one decent long range threat, and it depends on them providing him with a coordinator who can design a good passing attack. Too much is uncertain at this point. I was brought up with the phrase "there is no I in team". So obviously that influences my thinking about his not at least being on the side lines. And as I said; I have seen way too many pro QBs Johnny U. for one and basketball players, Willis Reed comes to mind. That put the team above their own well being. But admittedly, it is pretty obvious that this kind of thinking is now a fading memory. As far as long range threats. He has had more than a few that he could throw too, or overthrow or underthrow or plain not see. Well up to the point where they .... as always..... break down. I still can't figure out, for all their drafting success, why is it that the Ravens can't draft a durable, reliable pass catcher..... well other than TE's. It's a head scratcher.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 12:58:35 GMT -5
All good points made in every post and I feel this team with a few tweeks is an inch away from another Super Bowl win. We need QB protection and WRs badly.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 27, 2023 13:10:59 GMT -5
All good points made in every post and I feel this team with a few tweeks is an inch away from another Super Bowl win. We need QB protection and WRs badly. One of the drawbacks I see of trading Lamar It has been written over and over again, that the O-line is not a pass protections line..... it is a steamrolling running line. Big burley guys with not much athleticism....or more precisely .... not at the level of an elite pass orientated team. About WRs. Well, sadly, ourside of drafting (badly usually), elite receivers get paid big money for posting big numbers. Numbers that will not be obtained because of Lamars chicken arm and the run (almost at exclusion of the pass) offense. Yes, Lamar is a singular talent. And for a period the approach of building a running offensive scheme, worked. But, I think the success is more about the intitial shock value than anything else. Other teams were just not ready for it. So now they are. Sure, the Ravens rack up FANTASTIC running statistics. But have crappy ones where it counts..... on the score column. It was a nice experiment, but IMO it is time for the Ravens to smell the coffee and start remaking the team. Starting with a lot of draft picks from some other unsuspecting team. And that is not to say that Lamar might bloom somewhere else, we see it all the time in sports. But it is time to move on, I think.
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Post by alienrace on Jan 27, 2023 13:36:29 GMT -5
But, I think the success is more about the intitial shock value than anything else. Other teams were just not ready for it. Like I said, they had one of the top offenses THIS YEAR until people started getting hurt. Nothing was figured out.
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Post by pickle20 on Jan 27, 2023 13:39:33 GMT -5
All good points made in every post and I feel this team with a few tweeks is an inch away from another Super Bowl win. We need QB protection and WRs badly. Hope the new OC fixes whatever issues there were with the offense. Roman was a solid OC but just got stupid at the goalline. Hopefully a more conservative approach in the RZ leads to more scores. I do feel at times that with better coaching we'd have at least one SB with Lamar. John Boy isn't above criticism either.
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Post by Rael on Jan 27, 2023 14:11:01 GMT -5
All good points made in every post and I feel this team with a few tweeks is an inch away from another Super Bowl win. We need QB protection and WRs badly. So now they are. Sure, the Ravens rack up FANTASTIC running statistics. But have crappy ones where it counts..... on the score column. It was a nice experiment, but IMO it is time for the Ravens to smell the coffee and start remaking the team. Starting with a lot of draft picks from some other unsuspecting team. And that is not to say that Lamar might bloom somewhere else, we see it all the time in sports. But it is time to move on, I think. Not sure that statement holds water. In the last two years in games Lamar plays the whole game, we have scored less than 20 four times and over 30 eight times.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:31:34 GMT -5
So now they are. Sure, the Ravens rack up FANTASTIC running statistics. But have crappy ones where it counts..... on the score column. It was a nice experiment, but IMO it is time for the Ravens to smell the coffee and start remaking the team. Starting with a lot of draft picks from some other unsuspecting team. And that is not to say that Lamar might bloom somewhere else, we see it all the time in sports. But it is time to move on, I think. Not sure that statement holds water. In the last two years in games Lamar plays the whole game, we have scored less than 20 four times and over 30 eight times. I totally believe Lamar was cheated out of one super bowl win so far only due to bad coaching calls.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 27, 2023 14:33:48 GMT -5
But, I think the success is more about the intitial shock value than anything else. Other teams were just not ready for it. Like I said, they had one of the top offenses THIS YEAR until people started getting hurt. Nothing was figured out. And the most important one. Lamar is THE major component on which every thing revolves even with a chicken arm. He goes down.....so does the team. Now that is not to say that a QB with a golden arm goes down the team will be effected. But we have ..... especially.... this past season.... were QBs went down and the 2nd teamer still managed to at least keep the team even.... in some cases surpassed the starter. The skill differential between throwing QBs and a once in a lifetime improvisor and runner is much greater. My biggest fear is that the braintrust will slap a tag on him. He will come back, and either suck because he can't play or is pouting (he will) or play to his old self and say 'see yah'.
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Post by guido2 on Jan 27, 2023 14:36:04 GMT -5
Not sure that statement holds water. In the last two years in games Lamar plays the whole game, we have scored less than 20 four times and over 30 eight times. I totally believe Lamar was cheated out of one super bowl win so far only due to bad coaching calls. Harbaugh has to learn..... if you are going to gamble most all the time. Other teams are going to expect you to all the time and plan accordingly. More than once we have witnessed one of these supposed surprise gambles and you'd swear that the other teams defense drew up the play.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2023 14:37:47 GMT -5
Tagging a player is the worst decision ever. That forces a disgruntled player to be on a team and unhappy. It makes them as lame duck players.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 5:47:14 GMT -5
A Jalen Hurts contract extension could set Ravens and Lamar Jackson’s negotiations backward Rumors of Jalen Hurts and the Eagles coming to a new deal by next week could further set back the longstanding negotiations with the Ravens By Kyle P Barber on February 20, 2023 10:18 am “Hurts and the Eagles declined to talk about a contract extension following the Super Bowl loss, but don’t be surprised if he has a new deal before the Combine starts in a week and a half,” Volin wrote. “Prior to the Super Bowl, the Eagles had already approached veterans about redoing deals to make space for Hurts.” With the NFL Scouting Combine beginning on Tuesday, February 28, there’s eight days remaining before this passage of time. Bleeding Green Nation’s Brandon Lee Gowton notes how Hurts isn’t going to come cheap. All this is to say the Ravens will be further impacted by the latest quarterback contract that will impact their contract negotiations with Lamar Jackson, an ongoing negotiation spanning two seasons. It’s a fools errand to imagine Hurts, or Jackson, asking for or getting less money than either Denver Broncos’ Russell Wilson or Arizona Cardinals’ Kyler Murray, who earned $230+ million deals with $124 million and $103 million guaranteed, respectively. www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimorebeatdown.com/platform/amp/2023/2/20/23607216/a-jalen-hurts-contract-extension-could-set-ravens-and-lamar-jacksons-negotiations-backward
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Post by Evil Yoda on Feb 21, 2023 18:50:01 GMT -5
I suspect they are planning life after Jackson. Chant is they are $100M apart.
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