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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2023 20:22:12 GMT -5
I suspect they are planning life after Jackson. Chant is they are $100M apart. Geezzuss 100 million? How the hell do you even negotiate that amount. Ok Ravens next QB.?.. AGAIN 🙄
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Post by Evil Yoda on Feb 22, 2023 11:13:57 GMT -5
I suspect they are planning life after Jackson. Chant is they are $100M apart. Geezzuss 100 million? How the hell do you even negotiate that amount. Ok Ravens next QB.?.. AGAIN 🙄 I hasten to point out this is mere rumor, and there are many rumors, most of dubious reliability, being bruited at this time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 11:33:10 GMT -5
I honestly want Lamar to stay our QB, he's a record breaking monster on the field, The best QB the Ravens ever had. If his leg is perfect, pay the man and lets go win another Superbowl
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 18:22:26 GMT -5
Watching ESPN right now and talking about the Ravens and Lamar.
Saying we'll likely place the franchise tag on Lamar. I hate that idea. It only extends the the possibility of him not wanting to be here,or just pay the man.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Feb 22, 2023 18:26:00 GMT -5
They can franchise tag him once. Such a move would tend to alienate a player; he gets well paid but it is not guaranteed. And if he gets hurt again, he loses out. If they are far apart and neither side wants to move, then I imagine they will franchise tag him and then try to move him for picks. It would be about all that's left to do. Also if they are far apart, someone has a poor estimation of Lamar's skill and potential. I wonder who?
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Post by Rael on Feb 22, 2023 19:13:42 GMT -5
They can franchise tag him once. Such a move would tend to alienate a player; he gets well paid but it is not guaranteed. And if he gets hurt again, he loses out. If they are far apart and neither side wants to move, then I imagine they will franchise tag him and then try to move him for picks. It would be about all that's left to do. Also if they are far apart, someone has a poor estimation of Lamar's skill and potential. I wonder who? Or they have a similar estimate about skill and potential and are far apart regarding the downside of injury and past history. Potential means nothing if you can't run onto the field.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2023 20:19:00 GMT -5
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Post by Evil Yoda on Feb 28, 2023 13:11:21 GMT -5
The Athletic is apparently where Zrebiec works, which lends it more credibility with me. They are one of the sources of that $100M divide.
I liked watching Lamar, particularly his MVP year, but... tag him and then trade him for picks. Move on. It is clear he does not wish to play here for a reasonable salary, so let him find an unreasonable salary elsewhere. They will have a bad year or two until they find his successor, but that's okay: frees up my Sunday afternoons! (I am not the kind of diehard fan who will watch regardless of the product quality.)
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Post by alienrace on Feb 28, 2023 13:30:02 GMT -5
They will have a bad year or two until they find his successor, but that's okay: There are quite a few stopgap solutions they would likely look to if they went that route. The team is built to win now, I really don't think they'll go into rebuild mode.
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Post by pickle20 on Feb 28, 2023 13:39:32 GMT -5
I'm tired of this story. Regardless of how it ends I will be glad when it's over.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Feb 28, 2023 16:24:03 GMT -5
They will have a bad year or two until they find his successor, but that's okay: There are quite a few stopgap solutions they would likely look to if they went that route. The team is built to win now, I really don't think they'll go into rebuild mode. Supposedly that pundit Stephen A. Smith got his information from "Lamar Jackson's camp". When either of the sides resorts to battling with leaks, the divorce is all but final.
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Post by alienrace on Feb 28, 2023 16:38:31 GMT -5
There are quite a few stopgap solutions they would likely look to if they went that route. The team is built to win now, I really don't think they'll go into rebuild mode. Supposedly that pundit Stephen A. Smith got his information from "Lamar Jackson's camp". When either of the sides resorts to battling with leaks, the divorce is all but final. Well, I don't think there's any information really. That 100 mil divide is based on old news - that Lamar was offered 250 with 130 guaranteed, and that he wanted 230 guaranteed like Watson got. They can say the sides "remain 100 mil apart" because there's no other news coming out Slight of hand my friends, slight of hand. Stephen A Smith is about as trustworthy as Wile E Coyote.
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Post by pickle20 on Mar 7, 2023 15:31:02 GMT -5
Ravens used non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar. So he can negotiate with other teams, the Ravens have 5 days to match and if they don't, receive 2 first round draft picks.
This leaves me thinking the Ravens and Lamar never got close, Lamar simply said he wouldn't sign an exclusive offer, or the Ravens are calling Lamar's bluff and telling him to go see if another team views him as more valuable than what the Ravens have already offered.
So either Lamar is gone for only 2 first round picks and it was fun while it lasted , or the Ravens are about to pull off an insanely smart chess move in keeping Lamar.
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Post by alienrace on Mar 7, 2023 15:41:36 GMT -5
Ravens used non-exclusive franchise tag on Lamar. So he can negotiate with other teams, the Ravens have 5 days to match and if they don't, receive 2 first round draft picks. This leaves me thinking the Ravens and Lamar never got close, Lamar simply said he wouldn't sign an exclusive offer, or the Ravens are calling Lamar's bluff and telling him to go see if another team views him as more valuable than what the Ravens have already offered. So either Lamar is gone for only 2 first round picks and it was fun while it lasted , or the Ravens are about to pull off an insanely smart chess move in keeping Lamar. Yup, I'd guess that your summation is correct. If so, the divorce has begun.
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Post by pickle20 on Mar 7, 2023 15:42:49 GMT -5
Or, the Ravens believe Lamar's value isn't in line with what he thinks it is and they are essentially telling him to see for yourself. And then they can match whatever offer another team has made.
Still, this is likely the end of Lamar's time in Baltimore.
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Post by ivanbalt on Mar 7, 2023 15:57:13 GMT -5
I'm sure this will get painted as a negative against the Ravens, but they aren't ones negotiating a mega deal without an agent.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 7, 2023 16:34:50 GMT -5
I'm sure this will get painted as a negative against the Ravens, but they aren't ones negotiating a mega deal without an agent. Not by me. I don't actually know which side is unreasonable but the smart money says the amateur (player with no agent) is the unrealistic negotiator. You need some detachment and that's part of what the agent brings to the table. A guy who can't stay healthy a full season on an RGIII trajectory isn't worth $230M guaranteed, I feel.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 8, 2023 16:11:55 GMT -5
The Ravens evidently concluded that Lamar is overvaluing himself and are reasonably sure the league will explain this to him. The two first round picks (per 98Rock sports) come from the team that signs the RT player, a further disincentive for prudent teams. The Ravens' success under Ozzie was powered in part by his reluctance to part with picks, which he regarded as gold.
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Post by guido2 on Mar 8, 2023 19:53:45 GMT -5
The Ravens evidently concluded that Lamar is overvaluing himself and are reasonably sure the league will explain this to him. The two first round picks (per 98Rock sports) come from the team that signs the RT player, a further disincentive for prudent teams. The Ravens' success under Ozzie was powered in part by his reluctance to part with picks, which he regarded as gold. From what I have been reading..... this is the general thinking. And to be honest, while I think Lamar is a fantastic running QB. Those types of QB's don't last very long in the NFL. The last two seasons (to me) have proven that. Sorry guaranteeing someone that may not be there when you need them most is not a wise move. I get that injuries happen. And I was a Lamar fan for sometime. But when he had his last injury and he can't muster the (whatever) to be with the team during the playoffs spoke volumes to me. For all the rah rah we have heard, Lamar is about Lamar. IMO. But here is an interesting thing that I read today. That Lamar has to sign the agreement..... as far as I know.... he has not done so, for all these possibilities to be set in motion So (as I understand it), the team is not under the cap obligations, isn't required to honor the tag in respect to shopping him around for a trade/deal/more picks. But he is still locked in. IOWs he put himself in limbo..... if he didn't sign. So did he?
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Post by alienrace on Mar 9, 2023 7:59:18 GMT -5
And to be honest, while I think Lamar is a fantastic running QB. Those types of QB's don't last very long in the NFL. The last two seasons (to me) have proven that. Lamar didn't get hurt by being a running QB. How many times does that have to be said? He was hurt, both times, in the pocket, because his offensive line broke down. If anything, Lamar got hurt by being asked to do too much in this offense.
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Post by ivanbalt on Mar 9, 2023 8:48:56 GMT -5
And to be honest, while I think Lamar is a fantastic running QB. Those types of QB's don't last very long in the NFL. The last two seasons (to me) have proven that. Lamar didn't get hurt by being a running QB. How many times does that have to be said? He was hurt, both times, in the pocket, because his offensive line broke down. If anything, Lamar got hurt by being asked to do too much in this offense. When he got injured last season, it was because he was holding the ball too long. There were clear running lanes but he stayed in the pocket. And of course Roman's offense didn't know what screens or check downs were to counter pressure.
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Post by guido2 on Mar 9, 2023 13:16:51 GMT -5
And to be honest, while I think Lamar is a fantastic running QB. Those types of QB's don't last very long in the NFL. The last two seasons (to me) have proven that. Lamar didn't get hurt by being a running QB. How many times does that have to be said? He was hurt, both times, in the pocket, because his offensive line broke down. If anything, Lamar got hurt by being asked to do too much in this offense. You make a good point to which I concede. Now, let me ask you about his last injury the mystery high ankle sprain. I have watched that video several times. And I don't know.... but it (to me) sure seemed like the football version of Ali's phantom punch. And all the mystery behind it. I guess what I am trying to say is ..... for all the words said..... I don't believe, that in the end that Lamar is a team player. He always gets sick at the wrong times, he refuses(ed?) to get the covid vaccine, too many times he has some 'mysterious' stomach flu or other malady so he misses serveral days of practice.... only to show up in time for the walkthroughs and then play on Sunday. Now that 'stuff' might have flown in college..... just showing up on game day..... because he was heads and shoulders on shoulders above everyone else. But the pros? Ahhh no. And then there was some issue (he has so many I can't remember) during preseason training camp. Where he didn't show up to work with his receivers. And it showed in the early games. And as Preston pointed out, his not being on the sideline for the playoffs ..... well it turned me off entirely.....it turned off a lot of fans. And per Preston it (privately) ticked off a number of players. The Castle was very smart with the tag they placed on him. It gives him an opportunity to really see what he is worth to other teams as well as guaranttees them high picks. And again from what Preston and others have said it seems Lamars stock isn't as high as he thinks since teams that need a QB desperately, like Atlanta and the Raiders don't appear interested. But time will tell. My bet is no one will show interest of worth. He will be under the tag and he will sit out. Because Lamar IMHO is like the country western song goes "it's all about me". PS Thanks for the shrink session Doc I feel much better now. (Please know I am kidding with you)
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Post by alienrace on Mar 9, 2023 14:17:09 GMT -5
LOL, no problem BTW, I would never take anything Mike Preston says too seriously.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 9, 2023 14:45:15 GMT -5
When he got injured last season, it was because he was holding the ball too long. There were clear running lanes but he stayed in the pocket. And of course Roman's offense didn't know what screens or check downs were to counter pressure. At some point he will need to transition to a more conventional type of quarterback, able to pass from the pocket and less dependent on his ability to run and evade. Roman was hired to build a run-heavy offense and he did that, but to advance Jackson to the next level required a different sort of coordinator, which is why Roman is no longer in that role.
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Post by alienrace on Mar 9, 2023 15:18:40 GMT -5
At some point he will need to transition to a more conventional type of quarterback, able to pass from the pocket and less dependent on his ability to run and evade. They did try to move him in that direction at times. When they did, the offensive went from being at the top, to middle of the pack or worse. There are many who kept saying "just run the damn ball", "let Lamar be Lamar". I remember that all too well. Now the reasons for failure were not all on Roman. There was a lot of blame to go around. Roman's failures, IMO, were more about his feel for the game and play calling. Some of the failure rests on Lamar's shoulders. Some of it rests on DeCosta and the receivers he surrounded Lamar with. Some of it is just a horrible run of injuries. The Ravens offense in 2022 was pretty effective when it was healthy. It progressively got worse as the injuries piled up. Remember, the first half of the season it was near the top of the league.
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Post by ivanbalt on Mar 9, 2023 17:50:27 GMT -5
Roman's feel for the game was horrible. Lamar and Bateman were injured, but Gus and Dobbins were finally healthy. I know, let's throw it a bunch!
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 9, 2023 20:47:09 GMT -5
They did try to move him in that direction at times. When they did, the offensive went from being at the top, to middle of the pack or worse. There are many who kept saying "just run the damn ball", "let Lamar be Lamar". I remember that all too well. Now the reasons for failure were not all on Roman. There was a lot of blame to go around. Roman's failures, IMO, were more about his feel for the game and play calling. Some of the failure rests on Lamar's shoulders. Some of it rests on DeCosta and the receivers he surrounded Lamar with. Some of it is just a horrible run of injuries. The Ravens offense in 2022 was pretty effective when it was healthy. It progressively got worse as the injuries piled up. Remember, the first half of the season it was near the top of the league. Roman wasn't the whole problem by any means. And the offensive line needed to do better work, as did Jackson himself (as you say). I was amazed at DeCosta's comments at the combine about the wide receivers. He wasn't wrong, but the comments were politically maladroit when considering the modern player. Bateman tweeted angry and later deleted that.
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Post by alienrace on Mar 10, 2023 8:04:45 GMT -5
considering the modern player. The Modern Player. They are often cringy thin skinned, especially WR's. I weep for the future.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Mar 11, 2023 12:28:00 GMT -5
considering the modern player. The Modern Player. They are often cringy thin skinned, especially WR's. I weep for the future. I agree. But they are what the league and those who work for teams have and must deal with. As I told someone in a "friendly debate": it doesn't matter whether DeCosta's comments about the wide receivers were dead accurate or not. It matters what effect they have on player morale, player self-esteem, and willingness of players to come here. The first two affect performance, and all of them affect the team's success. The wise GM understands this and does not air negative opinions publicly.
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Post by alienrace on Mar 13, 2023 14:32:15 GMT -5
Jimmy G to the Raiders. This affects Lamar in that one of the higher profile stopgap QB's is out of the picture, reducing the chances for a trade or the Ravens not matching an offer to Lamar.
Many teams in the market for QB's have already stated they have no interest in Lamar. Presumably there are two factors at play: 1) They either don't feel he's worth two first round picks, or that they don't want to put in the effort only to have the Ravens match the offer. (The latter is the more likely reason, as two first round picks isn't that steep when you think about other recent trades for QB's such as Russell Wilson). 2) Lamar is sticking to his fully guaranteed deal angle, and no teams outside of Cleveland are stupid enough to do something like that. It's been clear that the other franchises feel that Watson's deal was foolish and should be treated as an outlier. Nobody wants to see this become precedent.
There is one team though that might be a possibility, IMO - and that is the Rams. They've already said they may be willing to trade Stafford, and maybe that is setting the table for a blockbuster trade with the Ravens. The big problem though - they don't have a first-round pick in 2023. Stafford's health is an issue, as is his age and durability. At best he's a shaky stopgap QB that could fall apart either way. The lack of a 2023 first round pick is probably not a huge issue - it's not a good QB draft class again, and the Ravens may be willing to wait a year to draft the heir apparent to whatever vet, such as Stafford, they plug in for 2023.
Honestly, I don't see any team making a trade or an offer at this point that is viable. The Rams might be the last flicker of the candle, and the wind is blowing stronger each day that passes. I think Lamar will stick to his guns until training camp, and after no offers with fully guaranteed money come in, he'll sign a pretty large deal with the Ravens, probably similar to what was offered last, but with a little more guaranteed money to make him happy.
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