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Post by soulflower on Aug 23, 2023 15:59:12 GMT -5
Can you name a war that lasted more than a year and involved no war crimes? I’m trying to understand why you’re implying that this war is somehow unique? Does the ugly nature of war not apply in eastern Europe? I don’t know why it bothers you that I say “the only way to stop those things from happening is to end the war…” I can name a couple of wars where the principal belligerent instituted systemic war crimes as a matter of policy but your head would explode in a frothing rage. 'Everybody does it' is a bad excuse after your mom catches you with a joint in your book bag. It is a moral failing when it is used to deflect attention away from Putin's genocidal invasion for territorial conquest in Ukraine. There could be a cease fire tomorrow and the systemic rape, torture, deportations, summary executions, and destruction of cultural heritage would continue in Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk Oblasts. Have you ever heard of a war called “Vietnam”? They know something about rape and torture too. War is hell. This war needs to end asap…
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 16:06:26 GMT -5
I can name a couple of wars where the principal belligerent instituted systemic war crimes as a matter of policy but your head would explode in a frothing rage. 'Everybody does it' is a bad excuse after your mom catches you with a joint in your book bag. It is a moral failing when it is used to deflect attention away from Putin's genocidal invasion for territorial conquest in Ukraine. There could be a cease fire tomorrow and the systemic rape, torture, deportations, summary executions, and destruction of cultural heritage would continue in Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk Oblasts. Have you ever heard of a war called “Vietnam”? They know something about rape and torture too. War is hell. This war needs to end asap… Soul diversion +1 Soul diversion: (noun) The number of posts it takes before Soulflower tries to deflect attention away from Putin's horrific acts by bashing the United States
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Post by soulflower on Aug 23, 2023 16:18:34 GMT -5
Have you ever heard of a war called “Vietnam”? They know something about rape and torture too. War is hell. This war needs to end asap… Soul diversion +1 Soul diversion: (noun) The number of posts it takes before Soulflower tries to deflect attention away from Putin's horrific acts by bashing the United States The war in Vietnam involved several countries including France and China. The North and South Vietnamese both committed war crimes against their own people. You never miss an opportunity to assume the worst of me 😂
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 16:35:46 GMT -5
Soul diversion +1 Soul diversion: (noun) The number of posts it takes before Soulflower tries to deflect attention away from Putin's horrific acts by bashing the United States The war in Vietnam involved several countries including France and China. The North and South Vietnamese both committed war crimes against their own people. You never miss an opportunity to assume the worst of me 😂 And you never miss an opportunity to run cover for Putin
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 16:41:26 GMT -5
Let's try to get this back to what's actually happening on the battlefield
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 16:52:28 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Aug 23, 2023 17:06:19 GMT -5
The war in Vietnam involved several countries including France and China. The North and South Vietnamese both committed war crimes against their own people. You never miss an opportunity to assume the worst of me 😂 And you never miss an opportunity to run cover for Putin Nonsense. You just can’t handle some truths.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 17:51:43 GMT -5
And you never miss an opportunity to run cover for Putin Nonsense. You just can’t handle some truths. You mean like this time last year when it took you over a week to finally call the Ukrainian offensive an 'offensive'?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 17:51:55 GMT -5
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Post by Rael on Aug 23, 2023 18:29:10 GMT -5
This is unfair. You attribute bad intentions to SF where a naive belief would suffice. I’m not naive and Pickle has no idea what I believe. He hasn’t read most of the books I’ve read or experienced the things I’ve experienced in my life. We bring our own biases and life experiences to this argument. Sometimes you just have to accept that I don’t see this situation the same way that you do. We don’t agree on the root causes of the war or the best way forward. Given that you don’t personally know me, there’s no reason to imply or assume that I’m “naive” or don’t honestly want what I think is best for Ukraine. Sorry to put it so bluntly but it’s insulting to put it in those dismissive terms… . Fair enough. You are correct. My apologies.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 23, 2023 19:06:24 GMT -5
I’m not naive and Pickle has no idea what I believe. He hasn’t read most of the books I’ve read or experienced the things I’ve experienced in my life. We bring our own biases and life experiences to this argument. Sometimes you just have to accept that I don’t see this situation the same way that you do. We don’t agree on the root causes of the war or the best way forward. Given that you don’t personally know me, there’s no reason to imply or assume that I’m “naive” or don’t honestly want what I think is best for Ukraine. Sorry to put it so bluntly but it’s insulting to put it in those dismissive terms… . Fair enough. You are correct. My apologies. Apology accepted and I apologize for losing my cool at times in this thread and the other topic.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 23, 2023 19:09:37 GMT -5
It was always assumed that Ukrainian forces would advance past Rabatino. The reason people are down about Ukraine’s progress is that no one expected it to be an almost three month bloody slog for them to advance a few kilometers.
They’re now a few kilometers closer to Russia’s first of five defensive lines. Do they have enough gas left in the tank for a few more weeks of heavy fighting? Time will tell.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 20:47:33 GMT -5
It was always assumed that Ukrainian forces would advance past Rabatino. The reason people are down about Ukraine’s progress is that no one expected it to be an almost three month bloody slog for them to advance a few kilometers. They’re now a few kilometers closer to Russia’s first of five defensive lines. Do they have enough gas left in the tank for a few more weeks of heavy fighting? Time will tell. How can I put this? You're wrong. I pointed this out to you a couple of days ago but you just refuse to listen.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 23, 2023 21:15:11 GMT -5
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 11:49:31 GMT -5
I wonder if the above, was connected to this
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Post by soulflower on Aug 24, 2023 11:51:26 GMT -5
Hilarious video. Not sure which side is telling the truth about the incident.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 12:30:18 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Aug 24, 2023 12:39:29 GMT -5
An Op-ed by a neocon and a former general who lost the war in Afghanistan (and exposed top secret information to his mistress). Those guys don't have an agenda but the currently serving officials at the Pentagon do in JIM's world...
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 13:02:13 GMT -5
An Op-ed by a neocon and a former general who lost the war in Afghanistan (and exposed top secret information to his mistress). Those guys don't have an agenda but the currently serving officials at the Pentagon do in JIM's world... Do you check for Neocons under your bed every night? Three times I have explained to why the premise and analysis of the Washington Post article was flawed. I can’t help it if you refuse to listen
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Post by soulflower on Aug 24, 2023 14:23:47 GMT -5
An Op-ed by a neocon and a former general who lost the war in Afghanistan (and exposed top secret information to his mistress). Those guys don't have an agenda but the currently serving officials at the Pentagon do in JIM's world... Do you check for Neocons under your bed every night?In Fred Kagan's case, the label "neoconservative" literally applies. He comes from a family of Neocons. His father was one of the leaders of the movement: "The neocon movement emerged in the 1970s around a group of public intellectuals, several of whom were influenced by University of Chicago political scientist Leo Strauss and Yale University classicist Donald Kagan. Neocon leaders included Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol [Bill Kristol's father], Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan (son of Donald), Frederick Kagan (son of Donald), Victoria Nuland (wife of Robert), Elliott Abrams, and Kimberley Allen Kagan (wife of Frederick)."www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/m6rb2a5tskpcxzesjk8hhzf96zh7w7To the neoconservatives, "war" is always the answer and diplomacy is always "appeasement". Their worldview is incompatible with the emerging multipolar world. I first became aware of the neoconservatism movement during the Iraq war and am disappointed that they still are so influential in DC post-Iraq. Three times I have explained to why the premise and analysis of the Washington Post article was flawed. In JIM's world, his opinions are indisputable facts. You're entitled to your own opinions but I'm entitled to disagree and share my own opinions. War is unpredictable. Things frequently change. No one knows how or when this war will end. The Pentagon has helped train the Ukrainian units that are currently participating in the counteroffensive. They also helped plan the offensive. Therefore they likely have better intelligence about what's happening on the ground in Ukraine than the nerds at ISW who have probably never saw combat. In spite of all that, the US military planners and trainers could be wrong and maybe the Ukrainians might perform better now that they're switching from NATO combat tactics to the style of combat that they are used to (per the Wall Street Journal): WSJ: U.S., Ukraine Clash Over Counteroffensive Strategy
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 14:34:26 GMT -5
now that they're switching from NATO combat tactics to the style of combat that they are used to (per the Wall Street Journal): Now? This happened in June. This was explained to you as well. You just don't listen. By the way, I posted about this strategy debate a couple of days ago and in more than just a tweet. You rely too much on tweets in your 'gotcha' style of doom saying. Life, and war, are more complicated but you can at least try to keep up.
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Post by soulflower on Aug 24, 2023 15:22:09 GMT -5
Rob Lee says there's an error in Kagan and Petraeus' op-ed now that they're switching from NATO combat tactics to the style of combat that they are used to (per the Wall Street Journal): Now? This happened in June. Tell that to the Wall Street Journal. The article that I linked is dated today's date. This was explained to you as well. You just don't listen. Why should I listen to you? You're just a regular guy who reads the news like me. We both have our own opinions and it's not my problem that you think your opinions are indisputable. They're not. Any opinion can be challenged.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 16:25:55 GMT -5
Now? This happened in June. Tell that to the Wall Street Journal. The article that I linked is dated today's date. 1. An article you didn't read. Again, there's more to life than tweets and headlines. 2. You seem to have trouble with reading for comprehension anyway because I'm not referring to when the article was written, I'm referring to the shift in tactics. It happened months ago and you would know that if you actually listened to people who know what they're talking about.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 16:34:11 GMT -5
Rob Lee says there's an error in Kagan and Petraeus' op-ed Try again... Another significant development is that Russia's lack of reserves is forcing its military commanders to rob Peter to pay Paul by moving units from one front to another and in some cases they seem to be splitting up cohesive units and spreading them across the lines. Cannibalizing front line units is a sure sign that your defenses are spread thin. www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/ukraine-invasion-updates-ctp#UkraineInvasionUpdates
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 24, 2023 16:39:01 GMT -5
Hey look!
A random tweet!
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 26, 2023 1:18:18 GMT -5
Jan Kallberg, Ph.D., LL.M., is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at the United States Military Academy. He is a non-resident Senior Fellow with the Transatlantic Defense and Security program at the Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA). Follow him at cyberdefense.com and @cyberdefensecom.
cepa.org/article/ukraine-victory-is-closer-than-you-think/
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Post by soulflower on Aug 26, 2023 5:47:58 GMT -5
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Post by pickle20 on Aug 26, 2023 6:47:35 GMT -5
Like clockwork at this point.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 26, 2023 10:30:34 GMT -5
You gotta keep up. Even your boy Julian has recently pegged the Ukrainians south of Robotyne As for the Telegraph article, first I tried to explain then I used three other sources to explain that it is not seizing Melitopol or reaching the Sea of Azov, it is cutting off the Russians in Kherson and Crimea and that's about putting the M14 and nearby east-west railroads under fire control - something Ukraine is close to achieving.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Aug 26, 2023 11:30:47 GMT -5
It's become increasingly clear that, in the south, this offensive is about roads.
Robotyne has been getting the attention over the past week and you may have heard a little bit about Ukrainian efforts to push that salient east toward Vebove. In this map, you'll see it on the right.
/photo/1
The town itself is not significant but what is significant is the road T-04-01 that lies about 7 kilometers to the east of Vebove. This is a north/south highway that runs from Tokmak toward the Russian held front line city of Polohy. It appears that Ukraine is hoping to cut this road and sever one of two supply routes running to that city while also giving them a left flank in their push south.
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The country here is somewhat similar to the hedgerow, or bocage, country that the Allies faced in Normandy in June/July 1944. There are miles and miles of relatively small farm fields bordered by tree lines. Each of those tree lines is an excellent place for Russia to put defensive positions and thwart/slow any Ukrainian attempts to move en force across the countryside. Hence the few roadways become increasingly important for both sides.
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