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Post by soulflower on Oct 16, 2023 14:51:57 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed.
Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy?
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Post by zenwalk on Oct 16, 2023 14:52:12 GMT -5
So Jordan -ridiculously gerrymandering district -has never sponsored a bill in the House. -force behind the never-ending and fruitless Benghazi hearings -implicated in OSU sex scandal -player in attempted insurrection Well why wouldn't the GOP select him? With the help of Musk's Boring Company new lows are being drilled daily.
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Post by mrsmlh on Oct 16, 2023 15:01:13 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 16, 2023 15:05:19 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too. A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. And no, I'm not saying House Dems are "entirely" to blame, I'm giving them partial blame given that they could've done something that they decided not to do. The consequence of their inaction may be a more conservative House Speaker.
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Post by zenwalk on Oct 16, 2023 15:06:13 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too. It's roughly the wifebeater argument that says She made me do it. We shouldn't be surprised at all to hear that from the GOP.
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Post by mrsmlh on Oct 16, 2023 15:16:32 GMT -5
So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too. A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. And no, I'm not saying House Dems are "entirely" to blame, I'm giving them partial blame given that they could've done something that they decided not to do. The consequence of their inaction may be a more conservative House Speaker. Sorry but after the way McCarthy lied about the Dems I can totally understand why they wouldn't help him. It is 100% the Republicans fault that McCarthy was ousted and a right wing nut will be speaker because the majority of Republicans refuse to have a back bone and stand up to the extremists in the party and give the extremists all the power to do whatever they want.
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up2
Full Member
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Post by up2 on Oct 16, 2023 15:39:49 GMT -5
So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too. A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. And no, I'm not saying House Dems are "entirely" to blame, I'm giving them partial blame given that they could've done something that they decided not to do. The consequence of their inaction may be a more conservative House Speaker. Perhaps you are correct in theory of how the Dems might have helped McCarthy, but I have pretty serious doubts about how the Republicans in practice will have acted afterward in anything even beginning to resemble anything close to bi-partisanship cooperation. If anything, Republicans would likely have been even more prone to avoid reaching out to or cooperating with Dems after such a thing, lest they be "primaried", which has become the de rigueur form of extortion being practiced in their party nowadays. Go ahead and lay any kind of blame to the Democrats you want, but I really do think it naive to assume such a gesture on their part will have made the cesspool that is Congress look or smell any better than it is.
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Post by guido2 on Oct 16, 2023 15:40:53 GMT -5
So Jordan -ridiculously gerrymandering district -has never sponsored a successfull bill in the House. -force behind the never-ending and fruitless Benghazi hearings -implicated in OSU sex scandal -player in attempted insurrection Well why wouldn't the GOP select him? PPPuuuhhhhlllleaaasseeee. 😁 Stop making any reference to the GOP. It's on life support at the moment and it's survival depends if they find their spine and gonads while rummaging around their desk drawers. Now, GQP? TFG party? Time will tell. But at this moment I am not putting any money on the GOP finding a 'set'. IMHO. It is up to those that got elected under the GOP 'original' doctrine..... to step up.... change parties..... or fine another line of work. EOS
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Post by guido2 on Oct 16, 2023 15:51:30 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? Ok come on soul. Don't drop to that level. Because you sound like someone ..... who's house was broken into by a guy with a hand gun. And he/she demands your money, you refuse, he/she pulls the trigger. Click! Click, Click! Then you say.................. Ohh you are out of bullets. Hmmmm looks like a 9mm. I have some of those.
smh
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Post by zenwalk on Oct 16, 2023 15:59:47 GMT -5
A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. And no, I'm not saying House Dems are "entirely" to blame, I'm giving them partial blame given that they could've done something that they decided not to do. The consequence of their inaction may be a more conservative House Speaker. Sorry but after the way McCarthy lied about the Dems I can totally understand why they wouldn't help him. It is 100% the Republicans fault that McCarthy was ousted and a right wing nut will be speaker because the majority of Republicans refuse to have a back bone and stand up to the extremists in the party and give the extremists all the power to do whatever they want. Perhaps if they were to repeal the tax cuts to their billionaires and strike the three SCOTUS knuckleheads from their seats we could begin negotiations with the GOP. That's not going to happen so in the words of Plato, F'em. It's enough we don't strafe them in the water.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 16, 2023 16:09:43 GMT -5
A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. And no, I'm not saying House Dems are "entirely" to blame, I'm giving them partial blame given that they could've done something that they decided not to do. The consequence of their inaction may be a more conservative House Speaker. Sorry but after the way McCarthy lied about the Dems I can totally understand why they wouldn't help him. It is 100% the Republicans fault that McCarthy was ousted and a right wing nut will be speaker because the majority of Republicans refuse to have a back bone and stand up to the extremists in the party and give the extremists all the power to do whatever they want. Me too. But at the end of the day, decisions have consequences. Their decision may lead to having to deal with someone who is a worse Speaker than McCarthy was.
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Post by mrsmlh on Oct 16, 2023 16:14:04 GMT -5
Sorry but after the way McCarthy lied about the Dems I can totally understand why they wouldn't help him. It is 100% the Republicans fault that McCarthy was ousted and a right wing nut will be speaker because the majority of Republicans refuse to have a back bone and stand up to the extremists in the party and give the extremists all the power to do whatever they want. Me too. But at the end of the day, decisions have consequences. Their decision may lead to having to deal with someone who is a worse Speaker than McCarthy was. You want to blame the Dems for the Republicans failures, I don't.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 16, 2023 16:18:08 GMT -5
Me too. But at the end of the day, decisions have consequences. Their decision may lead to having to deal with someone who is a worse Speaker than McCarthy was. You want to blame the Dems for the Republicans failures, I don't. It's a criticism of their strategy. I'm with the Dems 80% of the time on policy-issues.
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Post by zenwalk on Oct 16, 2023 16:57:42 GMT -5
You want to blame the Dems for the Republicans failures, I don't. It's a criticism of their strategy. I'm with the Dems 80% of the time on policy-issues. Because the republicans have been such good faith partners? This time will be different? cmon man. This is about self-respect.
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Post by carllafong on Oct 16, 2023 17:05:58 GMT -5
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Post by pickle20 on Oct 16, 2023 17:27:59 GMT -5
Republicans M.O. since 2015 appears to be "failing upward".
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Post by Jimmy Jazz on Oct 16, 2023 17:41:35 GMT -5
I sent my moderate Republican representative (D’Esposito NY-4) a message politely asking him not to vote for Jim Jordan. We’ll see how it goes!
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 16, 2023 17:56:11 GMT -5
So the entire lot of Republicans are blameless and it is all the Dems fault that the Republicans might vote Jordan as speaker. I know that the Republicans always blame the Dems for everything but I didn't realize that "independents" did too. A tiny minority of House Republicans were able to block McCarthy from continuing as Speaker. A handful of Dems could've crossed over and voted for McCarthy but they chose not to. Because McCarthy repeatedly stabbed them in the back and was not trustworthy. You never fail to lay blame in exactly the wrong place
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 16, 2023 18:08:09 GMT -5
Think about this... an avowed election denier and insurrectionist who refused to honor a subpoena over his role in the planning of January 6th may now be second in line to the presidency (after the Vice President) and will have a key role in certifying the next presidential election.
Not great
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Post by Jimmy Jazz on Oct 16, 2023 20:04:13 GMT -5
Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? I don’t think they care. They’re playing this game with an eye on next years election and aren’t particularly concerned with what happens this session of Congress.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 16, 2023 20:23:46 GMT -5
Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? I don’t think they care. They’re playing this game with an eye on next years election and aren’t particularly concerned with what happens this session of Congress. I'm not sure that's true. I think it came down to two things 1) what did McCarthy offer the dems for their support? (nothing) 2) did the dems feel like they could trust McCarthy? (not as far as they could throw him) The dems have repeatedly expressed a willingness to help elect a speaker in exchange for some basic promises. The GOP so far hasn't taken them up on it Tomorrow should be interesting. After the first ballot you could have Jeffries getting more votes than Jordan. What happens if a moderate GOP member throws his hat in the ring and the Dems vote for him?
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 16, 2023 20:38:36 GMT -5
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Post by carllafong on Oct 16, 2023 20:54:57 GMT -5
Sounds like a winner.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 16, 2023 21:38:42 GMT -5
Several GOP House members have said that Jordan has given them private 'assurances' on Ukraine funding although Jordan is publicly non-committal on the topic. He's also said that the House may need to pass a continuing resolution to keep the government running. Makes you wonder why Gaetz gave the boot to McCarthy
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up2
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Post by up2 on Oct 16, 2023 22:27:32 GMT -5
Several GOP House members have said that Jordan has given them private 'assurances' on Ukraine funding although Jordan is publicly non-committal on the topic. He's also said that the House may need to pass a continuing resolution to keep the government running. Makes you wonder why Gaetz gave the boot to McCarthyI think it was a personal score he wanted to settle dating all the way back to the circus that was the initial vote for speaker, and with so few votes needed from the most fervent wing, he got his wish. Plus with Trump ahead of the pack with a dominating lead, he's preening to curry favor with the frontrunner. That his replacement may very well have to concede to the same issues in order to govern is irrelevant. We often discuss "career politicians" in the pejorative sense. With Gaetz, as well as many connected pols, we have entire "families" of career politicians.
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Post by michiganjoe on Oct 17, 2023 2:06:32 GMT -5
Dems would have gladly helped the GOP out of their dilemma- for a price.
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Post by grindelwald on Oct 17, 2023 9:51:57 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? Giving Jordan the gavel is a disaster for the GOP and the Dems should not be bailing the GOP out by saving McCarthy.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 17, 2023 10:01:37 GMT -5
Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but I am struck by how often we hear that the so-called ‘moderate’ Republicans are going to finally make a stand and do the right thing only to watch them cave. It is like Lucy with the football
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 17, 2023 10:03:04 GMT -5
Dems could've helped to give McCarthy the votes he needed. Did they expect Republicans to choose someone to the Left of McCarthy? Giving Jordan the gavel is a disaster for the GOP and the Dems should not be bailing the GOP out by saving McCarthy. I hope that’s all it is. This guy is potentially going to have a role in overseeing the certification of the next presidential election unless the dems win back the house
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Post by Jimmy Jazz on Oct 17, 2023 10:10:19 GMT -5
Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but I am struck by how often we hear that the so-called ‘moderate’ Republicans are going to finally make a stand and do the right thing only to watch them cave. It is like Lucy with the football Part of it is, they are somewhat responsible and want to govern and they know that chaos and disorder prevent that so it's easier to get them to go along with anyone for Speaker compared to someone on the far right who doesn't care at all and only wants their way or nothing.
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