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Post by soulflower on Jan 14, 2020 15:25:03 GMT -5
“Like, I’ll Tune In When There’s Two Weeks Left”: Why Trump Has a Huge Advantage Over Dems With Low-Information Voters Will the split between highly engaged versus less engaged voters benefit Trump again in 2020? Vanity Fair:
“ There are plenty of divisions in our conventional wisdom—insider versus outsider, progressive versus moderate, young versus old—but one of the biggest splits in American politics is simply between those who follow politics closely and those who do not.
It’s a split that maps, if not perfectly, onto the gap that emerged between college and non-college educated voters in 2016. The latter set are often low-information voters who view politicians and media with contempt, deciding to sit elections out. Trump has exploited them to powerful effect. The president has made politics about culture—not just policy. He found a way to attract new voters, particularly rural and non-college educated whites who previously thumbed their nose at conventional politics. Because he’s a pure attention merchant, he doesn’t care what screen he appears on, as long he is there. Because he lacks an ounce of shame, it all works, with or without the blessing of the legacy press.
None of the above can be said for Democrats, who care habitually about the good graces of the national press, and who don’t see politics as a subspecies of the entertainment business. Democrats happen to believe in facts and institutions—and yes, they would like a cable contract when the campaign is over, thank you very much. But to Trump’s great advantage, the mainstream press is where many of the fights for the Democratic nomination are being waged: on cable news, on Twitter, and in the prestige media.
As much as Democrats and the press like to blame ideological and partisan bubbles for our broken political culture—Facebook! Fox News!—their pieties usually don’t include the fact that political media culture is a bubble of its own, a cocoon of college-educated and left-leaning professionals who read the same things, watch the same shows, and liked your last tweet about Lizzo. In this world, the inside game is everything. Topics like wine caves, pay-fors, court packing, white privilege, and Iowa’s role in the nomination process have become topics of profound consequence in the race. The political media blob tumbles forward every day on the assumption that people are aware of these story lines and characters, that voters are tuning in, when many probably can’t tell you what channel this thing is on.” www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/01/why-trump-has-huge-advantage-over-democrats-low-information-voters
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 15:43:48 GMT -5
Interesting article.
Essentially, Trump voters are too stupid to understand issues and Democrats are too arrogant to listen to anything other than that with which they already agree.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 14, 2020 16:00:08 GMT -5
Interesting article. Essentially, Trump voters are too stupid to understand issues and Democrats are too arrogant to listen to anything other than that with which they already agree. There are low-info voters on both sides of the aisle but I think the point is, there is a universe of voters that don’t watch Cable News daily, keep up with every Trump scandal, or hear about every debate involving Liberals on Twitter. Stuff that becomes a Big Deal in Liberal echo chambers often gets overlooked by most voters.
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Post by upstream on Jan 14, 2020 16:17:31 GMT -5
It's a little early in the election cycle to start with the excuse making. Not when the GOP is purging the voter rolls in several swing states. There's a built in excuse right there. They have to cheat. It's the same crap folks of color have been delaing with since we got here. The 14th and 15th amendments were supposed to stp that kinda crap, but there's always a work around when it comes to white supremacy and the Good ol US of A.
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 14, 2020 18:24:54 GMT -5
It's a little early in the election cycle to start with the excuse making. Nah. Barring a miracle/disaster (depending on one’s perspective) Trump will likely win again. Democrats managing expectations is probably good for the country. They didn’t last time, Hillary lost, and the low-information half the country lost its mind.
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Post by grindelwald on Jan 14, 2020 18:31:20 GMT -5
Yeah. No s**t.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 14, 2020 19:37:17 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me. Trump is, among other low things, a con man. And con men prey on low information types. He tricked a lot of people and that's how he got elected. I am sure he is going to try the same basic approach this year.
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Post by pickle20 on Jan 14, 2020 19:45:24 GMT -5
Democrats should be hammering Trump on the wall. It went from “Mexico will pay for it” to $18B being spent to build it now.
It probably doesn’t matter to the Trumpist mouth breathers but you should absolutely be using all his words against him whenever you can.
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 14, 2020 19:47:36 GMT -5
Democrats should be hammering Trump on the wall. It went from “Mexico will pay for it” to $18B being spent to build it now. It probably doesn’t matter to the Trumpist mouth breathers but you should absolutely be using all his words against him whenever you can. Why? Do they want a wall now?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 20:16:17 GMT -5
Interesting article. Essentially, Trump voters are too stupid to understand issues and Democrats are too arrogant to listen to anything other than that with which they already agree. There are low-info voters on both sides of the aisle but I think the point is, there is a universe of voters that don’t watch Cable News daily, keep up with every Trump scandal, or hear about every debate involving Liberals on Twitter. Stuff that becomes a Big Deal in Liberal echo chambers often gets overlooked by most voters. Glen Greenwald disposes of this.Cable news is a horrible source of information.
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Post by upstream on Jan 15, 2020 9:46:50 GMT -5
Not when the GOP is purging the voter rolls in several swing states. There's a built in excuse right there. They have to cheat. It's the same crap folks of color have been delaing with since we got here. The 14th and 15th amendments were supposed to stp that kinda crap, but there's always a work around when it comes to white supremacy and the Good ol US of A. Republicans - boogeymen Democrats - victims of boogeymen Always and in all ways. This despite over the last 14 elections, Democrats winning the Presidency (I think) seven times; winning a majority in the House and/the Senate. Despite a close to equal number of current Governors; despite having a clear majority of Mayors in 50 major cities in the U.S. It is tiresome. Umm...that's kinda the whole point. That's why they're cheating now. The supreme court allowed them too by essentially gutting the voting rights act and now they've gone full blown voter suppression. Purging the voter rolls of people who miss even one election. It's a travesty of justice that you apparently see nothing wrong with. How do you feel about what's going on in Wisconsin? Of course they're just the latest of many... www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-purge-appeals-court-halts-209000-voters-from-purge-today-2020-01-14/That's potentially 209,000 voters just gone. For nothing... The margin of victory for Trump was only like 23,000 in WI. You don't think this is a blatant attempt at voter suppression?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 10:07:20 GMT -5
Republicans - boogeymen Democrats - victims of boogeymen Always and in all ways. This despite over the last 14 elections, Democrats winning the Presidency (I think) seven times; winning a majority in the House and/the Senate. Despite a close to equal number of current Governors; despite having a clear majority of Mayors in 50 major cities in the U.S. It is tiresome. Umm...that's kinda the whole point. That's why they're cheating now. The supreme court allowed them too by essentially gutting the voting rights act and now they've gone full blown voter suppression. Purging the voter rolls of people who miss even one election. It's a travesty of justice that you apparently see nothing wrong with. How do you feel about what's going on in Wisconsin? Of course they're just the latest of many... www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-purge-appeals-court-halts-209000-voters-from-purge-today-2020-01-14/That's potentially 209,000 voters just gone. For nothing... The margin of victory for Trump was only like 23,000 in WI. You don't think this is a blatant attempt at voter suppression? No, it isn't. Wisconsin electoral law requires voters to confirm their registration within 30 days of a mailing that is sent to the registered voter's address of record. Apparently, some 200,000 voters have not returned this confirmation. The three Republicans on the Wisconsin election board have sued, saying that the law is clear and that failure to return the cars requires that the voter be removed from the rolls. The three Democrats have counter-sued, saying that Wisconsin should wait till after the election. The law itself is not being contested; no return registration confirmation, no voter registration is valid. Registration can be initiated right up to election day, so if a record is incorrectly dropped, it can be reinstated easily. There is nothing in the link that says a particular group was targeted. That a particular group may suffer a bigger impact is not the result of the process, nor an indication of targeting.
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Post by stevez51 on Jan 15, 2020 10:24:38 GMT -5
Umm...that's kinda the whole point. That's why they're cheating now. The supreme court allowed them too by essentially gutting the voting rights act and now they've gone full blown voter suppression. Purging the voter rolls of people who miss even one election. It's a travesty of justice that you apparently see nothing wrong with. How do you feel about what's going on in Wisconsin? Of course they're just the latest of many... www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-purge-appeals-court-halts-209000-voters-from-purge-today-2020-01-14/That's potentially 209,000 voters just gone. For nothing... The margin of victory for Trump was only like 23,000 in WI. You don't think this is a blatant attempt at voter suppression? No, it isn't. Wisconsin electoral law requires voters to confirm their registration within 30 days of a mailing that is sent to the registered voter's address of record. Apparently, some 200,000 voters have not returned this confirmation. The three Republicans on the Wisconsin election board have sued, saying that the law is clear and that failure to return the cars requires that the voter be removed from the rolls. The three Democrats have counter-sued, saying that Wisconsin should wait till after the election. The law itself is not being contested; no return registration confirmation, no voter registration is valid. Registration can be initiated right up to election day, so if a record is incorrectly dropped, it can be reinstated easily. There is nothing in the link that says a particular group was targeted. That a particular group may suffer a bigger impact is not the result of the process, nor an indication of targeting. Or just go register again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 10:35:49 GMT -5
Umm...that's kinda the whole point. That's why they're cheating now. The supreme court allowed them too by essentially gutting the voting rights act and now they've gone full blown voter suppression. Purging the voter rolls of people who miss even one election. It's a travesty of justice that you apparently see nothing wrong with. How do you feel about what's going on in Wisconsin? Of course they're just the latest of many... www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-purge-appeals-court-halts-209000-voters-from-purge-today-2020-01-14/That's potentially 209,000 voters just gone. For nothing... The margin of victory for Trump was only like 23,000 in WI. You don't think this is a blatant attempt at voter suppression? That Democrats won 7 of the last 14 elections is the point? Maybe that there are some low information voters who still think Clinton won the 2016 election by three million votes.
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Post by stevez51 on Jan 15, 2020 10:57:25 GMT -5
That Democrats won 7 of the last 14 elections is the point? Maybe that there are some low information voters who still think Clinton won the 2016 election by three million votes. Just the ones in Congress .....
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Post by ivanbalt on Jan 15, 2020 12:10:40 GMT -5
That Democrats won 7 of the last 14 elections is the point? Maybe that there are some low information voters who still think Clinton won the 2016 election by three million votes. There are some low information voters that think those three million are illegal votes.
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Post by ivanbalt on Jan 15, 2020 12:14:43 GMT -5
Interesting article. Essentially, Trump voters are too stupid to understand issues and Democrats are too arrogant to listen to anything other than that with which they already agree. How I'd break down low info voters:
Republicans - too stupid to understand issues, but ultra-passionate and driven by their lack of understanding
Democrats - too stupid to understand issues and too lazy to care
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 15:28:01 GMT -5
The three Republicans on the Wisconsin election board have sued, saying that the law is clear and that failure to return the cars requires that the voter be removed from the rolls. The three Democrats have counter-sued, saying that Wisconsin should wait till after the election. The Republicans would not have sued if they did not see this as a path to victory. A path to victory that requires preventing people from voting is a cheat. When Republicans do things like this they slather "unethical" all over themselves, and that's a stink that's hard to remove.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 15:41:51 GMT -5
The three Republicans on the Wisconsin election board have sued, saying that the law is clear and that failure to return the cars requires that the voter be removed from the rolls. The three Democrats have counter-sued, saying that Wisconsin should wait till after the election. The Republicans would not have sued if they did not see this as a path to victory. A path to victory that requires preventing people from voting is a cheat. When Republicans do things like this they slather "unethical" all over themselves, and that's a stink that's hard to remove. There is insufficient evidence to support this conclusion. The election board in Wisconsin is comprised of 6 folks, 3 (D) and 3 (R), so the board could not bring itself to a conclusion. The (R)s believe the law is clear. The (D)s want to wait till after the election. One could easily jump to the obverse of the conclusion to which you leapt; the Democrats can't win unless they can keep ghost voters on the rolls. Such a leap would be as unsupported as is yours.
Nothing of this prevents people from voting. Barring some plan of the Post Office to throw out these cards rather than deliver them, each voter had the same opportunity to validate their registration. Some 200,000+ folks decided not to return their registration instrument. That inaction is people choosing not to make themselves eligible to vote. The Rs have not changed the rules about registration, nor have they changed eligibility. People can still register up to a few days before election day. The Rs are simply reacting to the law.
That you choose to see following the law as an unethical action is disappointing.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 15:47:05 GMT -5
Nothing of this prevents people from voting. Barring some plan of the Post Office to throw out these cards rather than deliver them, each voter had the same opportunity to validate their registration. Some 200,000+ folks decided not to return their registration instrument. That inaction is people choosing not to make themselves eligible to vote. The Rs have not changed the rules about registration, nor have they changed eligibility. People can still register up to a few days before election day.The Rs are simply reacting to the law. That you choose to see following the law as an unethical action is disappointing. Some laws are unjust. Do recall that boiled down to its essence, Democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner. Republicans are very fond of saying that voter fraud is rampant but they are far less good at actually proving it. Nevertheless, laws like this get passed whose only purpose is to "clean up" the voter rolls. Usually those laws are meant to "clean out" likely Democratic voters. And that's disturbing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 16:03:22 GMT -5
Nothing of this prevents people from voting. Barring some plan of the Post Office to throw out these cards rather than deliver them, each voter had the same opportunity to validate their registration. Some 200,000+ folks decided not to return their registration instrument. That inaction is people choosing not to make themselves eligible to vote. The Rs have not changed the rules about registration, nor have they changed eligibility. People can still register up to a few days before election day.The Rs are simply reacting to the law. That you choose to see following the law as an unethical action is disappointing. Some laws are unjust. Do recall that boiled down to its essence, Democracy is two wolves and one sheep deciding what's for dinner. Republicans are very fond of saying that voter fraud is rampant but they are far less good at actually proving it. Nevertheless, laws like this get passed whose only purpose is to "clean up" the voter rolls. Usually those laws are meant to "clean out" likely Democratic voters. And that's disturbing. How is the law unjust? Mailing registration validations to all voters, IAW law, is certainly not unjust. Do you have something to show it only went to selected districts or zip codes?
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 18:13:28 GMT -5
How is the law unjust? Mailing registration validations to all voters, IAW law, is certainly not unjust. Do you have something to show it only went to selected districts or zip codes? It is hard to know whether this law is or not. It may not be. But I touched on that briefly. You seem to respect the letter of the law over the intent. If the intent was to disenfranchise voters, then the law is unjust. Absent clear indication of fraud, which I have not heard asserted here, it may simply be that the law is unneeded. Unless, of course, the intent is unjust. In that case it may be needed by the party that isn't popular but wants to win by hook or by crook.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 18:44:32 GMT -5
How is the law unjust? Mailing registration validations to all voters, IAW law, is certainly not unjust. Do you have something to show it only went to selected districts or zip codes? It is hard to know whether this law is or not. It may not be. But I touched on that briefly. You seem to respect the letter of the law over the intent. If the intent was to disenfranchise voters, then the law is unjust. Absent clear indication of fraud, which I have not heard asserted here, it may simply be that the law is unneeded. Unless, of course, the intent is unjust. In that case it may be needed by the party that isn't popular but wants to win by hook or by crook. I respect the letter of the law because I can see it, I don't have to add an arbitrary "feel" to its words. Perhaps the law IS unneeded, but here we have 200,000 opportunities for fraud to occur. The prudent course is to do so and make sure people are aware, through PSA, that their registration may be voided.
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Post by Ranger John on Jan 15, 2020 19:24:52 GMT -5
Umm...that's kinda the whole point. That's why they're cheating now. The supreme court allowed them too by essentially gutting the voting rights act and now they've gone full blown voter suppression. Purging the voter rolls of people who miss even one election. It's a travesty of justice that you apparently see nothing wrong with. How do you feel about what's going on in Wisconsin? Of course they're just the latest of many... www.cbsnews.com/news/wisconsin-voter-purge-appeals-court-halts-209000-voters-from-purge-today-2020-01-14/That's potentially 209,000 voters just gone. For nothing... The margin of victory for Trump was only like 23,000 in WI. You don't think this is a blatant attempt at voter suppression? No, it isn't. Wisconsin electoral law requires voters to confirm their registration within 30 days of a mailing that is sent to the registered voter's address of record. Apparently, some 200,000 voters have not returned this confirmation. The three Republicans on the Wisconsin election board have sued, saying that the law is clear and that failure to return the cars requires that the voter be removed from the rolls. The three Democrats have counter-sued, saying that Wisconsin should wait till after the election. The law itself is not being contested; no return registration confirmation, no voter registration is valid. Registration can be initiated right up to election day, so if a record is incorrectly dropped, it can be reinstated easily. There is nothing in the link that says a particular group was targeted. That a particular group may suffer a bigger impact is not the result of the process, nor an indication of targeting. There are clearly a lot of low-information voters who don’t understand Wisconsin law.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 19:42:19 GMT -5
Perhaps the law IS unneeded, but here we have 200,000 opportunities for fraud to occur. The prudent course is to do so and make sure people are aware, through PSA, that their registration may be voided. Every time you pass an unlocked automobile is an opportunity for you to rifle the contents. Perhaps we should pass a law that says you need to be under constant surveillance so that can't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 19:57:37 GMT -5
Perhaps the law IS unneeded, but here we have 200,000 opportunities for fraud to occur. The prudent course is to do so and make sure people are aware, through PSA, that their registration may be voided. Every time you pass an unlocked automobile is an opportunity for you to rifle the contents. Perhaps we should pass a law that says you need to be under constant surveillance so that can't happen. Really EY? We were having a reasonable conversation and then this silliness.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 20:05:01 GMT -5
Every time you pass an unlocked automobile is an opportunity for you to rifle the contents. Perhaps we should pass a law that says you need to be under constant surveillance so that can't happen. Really EY? We were having a reasonable conversation and then this silliness. The "silliness" is meant to hang a lantern on something. Look more closely.
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Post by soulflower on Jan 15, 2020 20:22:51 GMT -5
Crazy
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 20:42:47 GMT -5
Really EY? We were having a reasonable conversation and then this silliness. The "silliness" is meant to hang a lantern on something. Look more closely. Sorry. Not in the frame of mind to chase hidden meanings. If you have a point, make it.
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Post by Evil Yoda on Jan 15, 2020 22:17:54 GMT -5
Sorry. Not in the frame of mind to chase hidden meanings. If you have a point, make it. One must question laws created to solve problems that aren't really problems.
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