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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 9:34:33 GMT -5
Very much the response that I expected, it leaves no room for discussion. I have serious issues with Israel, especially the current administration. And the ongoing persecution of innocents. But quoting drivel from a holocaust denier is hardly fruitful discussion. It's filth. Unless you can fairly challenge any of the points raised in that article, I cannot except your position that it is filth, that is just your opinion.
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 8, 2023 9:39:52 GMT -5
If someone is a holocaust denier, it undermines their credibility about anything else.
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 8, 2023 9:47:19 GMT -5
I have serious issues with Israel, especially the current administration. And the ongoing persecution of innocents. But quoting drivel from a holocaust denier is hardly fruitful discussion. It's filth. Unless to can fairly challenge any of the points raised in that article, I cannot except your position that it is filth, that is just your opinion. Holocaust denial is filth.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 9:56:41 GMT -5
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 8, 2023 10:01:24 GMT -5
He says "so-called holocaust" in the article you posted. And equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews tells me all I need to know about you. Our discourse is over.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 10:04:52 GMT -5
He says "so-called holocaust" in the article you posted. And equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews tells me all I need to know about you. Our discourse is over. Well, if you believe that only Jews suffered in that war, link, it tells me all I need to know about you, I guess.
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 8, 2023 10:34:15 GMT -5
Gotta love these crazies. When they land on a really horrible idea they cling to it like grim death.
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 8, 2023 10:39:09 GMT -5
Gotta love these crazies. When they land on a really horrible idea they cling to it like grim death. Anything they don't like is fake. Fake news, election fraud, dead Palestinian actors... They're an unhinged cult.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 8, 2023 10:44:38 GMT -5
He says "so-called holocaust" in the article you posted. And equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews tells me all I need to know about you. Our discourse is over. Well, if you believe that only Jews suffered in that war, link, it tells me all I need to know about you, I guess. She never said that "only" Jews were killed. And you're not anti-Jew, right?
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 11:07:22 GMT -5
Well, if you believe that only Jews suffered in that war, link, it tells me all I need to know about you, I guess. She never said that "only" Jews were killed. And you're not anti-Jew, right? She said " equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews" The 17 million, including 6 million Jews, mentioned were all systematically exterminated, not just "victims of war." For civilian "victims of war" you are to looking in excess of 50-55 million. And I repeat. I am anti-Zionist. I am not ant-Jew, that is just you trying to hang that on me with your conflated, false syllogistic, 'anti-Semitic' claptrap.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 8, 2023 11:19:27 GMT -5
Gotta love these crazies. When they land on a really horrible idea they cling to it like grim death. More should be expected of members of Congress than 19 and 20 year old college students.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 8, 2023 12:57:39 GMT -5
She never said that "only" Jews were killed. And you're not anti-Jew, right? She said " equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews" The 17 million, including 6 million Jews, mentioned were all systematically exterminated, not just victims of war. For civilian "victims of war" you are to looking in excess of 50-55 million. And I repeat. I am anti-Zionist. I am not ant-Jew, that is just you trying to hang that on me with your conflated, false syllogistic, 'anti-Semitic' claptrap. So . . . those 6 million Jews were not of interest to Hitler. Understood.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 13:12:52 GMT -5
She said " equating all the victims of war with the systematic attempt to exterminate Jews" The 17 million, including 6 million Jews, mentioned were all systematically exterminated, not just victims of war. For civilian "victims of war" you are to looking in excess of 50-55 million. And I repeat. I am anti-Zionist. I am not ant-Jew, that is just you trying to hang that on me with your conflated, false syllogistic, 'anti-Semitic' claptrap. So . . . those 6 million Jews were not of interest to Hitler. Understood. You clearly understand nothing I posted. I do not and have never denied the Holocaust, I am totally aware that Hitler and the Nazis murdered around 6 million Jews. What else do you want me to say?
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Post by summer23 on Nov 8, 2023 14:01:23 GMT -5
So . . . those 6 million Jews were not of interest to Hitler. Understood. You clearly understand nothing I posted. I do not and have never denied the Holocaust, I am totally aware that Hitler and the Nazis murdered around 6 million Jews. What else do you want me to say? Nothing.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 8, 2023 19:49:16 GMT -5
Jewish students arrested during protest at Brown University
They are calling for a ceasefire in Gaza
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 8, 2023 20:46:40 GMT -5
No anti-semitism here. No, none at all
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 8, 2023 21:01:44 GMT -5
Examples of machinations of antisemitism? Yes, I misspoke, I should have said machinations of the ADL, sorry for the confusion. Here, Machinations of the Anti-Defamation League, a bit of a long read. Though I doubt many here will read it through. Wow... spreading the writings of a Holocaust denier. I guess that makes sense but it is still deeply disappointing.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 21:35:33 GMT -5
Wow... spreading the writings of a Holocaust denier. I guess that makes sense but it is still deeply disappointing. You too, like others here quick to clutch their pearls, are free to challenge anything that he wrote in that article, no one has yet. If you have followed this thread fairly and faithfully, you would know that Paul N. McCloskey, Jr. Is not Holocaust denier, although his article was printed in a suspect source.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 8, 2023 21:56:16 GMT -5
Wow... spreading the writings of a Holocaust denier. I guess that makes sense but it is still deeply disappointing. You too, like others here quick to clutch their pearls, are free to challenge anything that he wrote in that article, no one has yet. If you have followed this thread fairly and faithfully, you would know that Paul N. McCloskey, Jr. Is not Holocaust denier, although his article was printed in a suspect source. Sorry, anyone writing about the 'so-called Holocaust' and allowing his work to be published by that group is pretty clearly a Holocaust denier. And, like 9/11 Truthers and Obama Birthers, I learned long ago that it is pointless to engage them
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 8, 2023 22:02:42 GMT -5
You too, like others here quick to clutch their pearls, are free to challenge anything that he wrote in that article, no one has yet. If you have followed this thread fairly and faithfully, you would know that Paul N. McCloskey, Jr. Is not Holocaust denier, although his article was printed in a suspect source. Sorry, anyone writing about the 'so-called Holocaust' and allowing his work to be published by that group is pretty clearly a Holocaust denier BS. You clearly have not read the full article and consequently, you too have no challenge to what was actually written. Paul N. McCloskey, Jr.
"IHR/Holocaust controversy edit During the 2006 primary campaign there was controversy over what McCloskey allegedly said about the Holocaust during his keynote address, titled “The Machinations of the Anti-Defamation League”, to the May 2000 Institute for Historical Review conference.[29] According to the San Jose Mercury News, McCloskey said at the time, "I don't know whether you are right or wrong about the Holocaust," and he referred to the "so-called Holocaust". McCloskey replied "that he has never questioned the existence of the Holocaust, and the 2000 quote referred to a debate over the number of people killed."[30] McCloskey said in an interview with the Contra Costa Times on January 18, 2006, that the IHR transcript of his speech had been inaccurate.[31]
Journalist Mark Hertsgaard of The Nation, in response to criticism of McCloskey following an article about the candidate's 2006 campaign, stated that a videotape he had viewed of McCloskey's speech to the IHR did not contain the "right or wrong" wording present in the transcript.[32][33] According to Hertsgaard, McCloskey "told the delegates, 'I may not agree with you about everything I’ve heard today,' before he reiterated a core point of his speech—that the right for anyone to question what is said about the past is basic to freedom of thought in America."[33] Hertsgaard also denied Rafael Medoff's claim that McCloskey praised the "'courage' of Holocaust deniers in Europe."[33]"
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 8, 2023 23:50:04 GMT -5
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 7:15:10 GMT -5
I have conceded and agreed that the IHR is a disreputable publication. However, the article by McCloskey is not denying the Holocaust, nor is he a Holocaust denier. Furthermore the SPLCenter is also a dubious organisation, on the other side of the coin.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 7:17:06 GMT -5
Not to mention his affiliation with CNI: The CNI is aligned with The Council for the National Interest Foundation ("CNIF"), an independent 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.[1] CNI was founded in 1989 by former Congressmen Paul Findley (R-Ill.) and Pete McCloskey (R-Calif.).[2] Its first executive director was ten-term congressman John B. Anderson (R-Ill.), who ran as an Independent candidate in the 1980 presidential election.[3] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_the_National_Interest
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 7:21:51 GMT -5
I have conceded and agreed that the IHR is a disreputable publication. However, the article by McCloskey is not denying the Holocaust, nor is he a Holocaust denier. Furthermore the SPLCenter is also a dubious organisation, on the other side of the coin. What reason do you have for calling the SPLC "dubious"?
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 7:24:26 GMT -5
If Hamas wants a cease fire they need to release the hostages.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 8:12:18 GMT -5
If Hamas wants a cease fire they need to release the hostages. Hamas was willing to release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire a few weeks ago but Israel refused. Last month an agreement was close to being finalized, according to current and former officials in three of the involved regional capitals, for the release of all civilian women, children, older adults and the sick in exchange for a five-day cessation of hostilities and to allow more humanitarian assistance to enter Gaza. Israel nixed that deal by launching its ground incursion.www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/opinion/israel-hamas-cease-fire.html
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 8:36:55 GMT -5
If Hamas wants a cease fire they need to release the hostages. Hamas was willing to release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire a few weeks ago but Israel refused. Last month an agreement was close to being finalized, according to current and former officials in three of the involved regional capitals, for the release of all civilian women, children, older adults and the sick in exchange for a five-day cessation of hostilities and to allow more humanitarian assistance to enter Gaza. Israel nixed that deal by launching its ground incursion.www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/opinion/israel-hamas-cease-fire.htmlSupposedly they were ready to do this. The record of Hamas re negotiations/promises is pretty spotty. And note not all hostages.
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 9, 2023 8:38:23 GMT -5
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 8:44:55 GMT -5
True but why add fuel to the fire? Certainly within this group's rights but poor judgment IMO.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 8:47:27 GMT -5
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