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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 9:02:32 GMT -5
Certainly appears that way. Really, what did they think was going to happen after that gruesome attack? They aren't serving the Palestinians at all well. Sad.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 9:05:20 GMT -5
Certainly appears that way. Really, what did they think was going to happen after that gruesome attack? They aren't serving the Palestinians at all well. Sad. Nor will they ever.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 9:32:24 GMT -5
Hamas was willing to release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire a few weeks ago but Israel refused. Last month an agreement was close to being finalized, according to current and former officials in three of the involved regional capitals, for the release of all civilian women, children, older adults and the sick in exchange for a five-day cessation of hostilities and to allow more humanitarian assistance to enter Gaza. Israel nixed that deal by launching its ground incursion.www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/opinion/israel-hamas-cease-fire.htmlSupposedly they were ready to do this. The record of Hamas re negotiations/promises is pretty spotty. And note not all hostages. Both sides haven't kept promises Maggie. Israel has expanded illegal settlements in the West Bank. They've broken ceasefires. They've provoked Muslims and Christians with their actions around Jerusalem. Some only hold one side accountable. That's what you and Summer do. Israelis aren't as blind as Americans and are holding Netanyahu accountable for not negotiating to get the hostages released. Representatives of loved ones of hostages held by Hamas in Gaza told the Israeli prime minister that they supported an all-for-all deal and believed this would have strong national supportThe CIA director is currently in Qatar. I assume his visit is related to the hostage negotiations. Lastly, it's impossible to destroy an idea. No matter how many Palestinian civilians Israel kills, they won't destroy Hamas as an idea. They're just creating the next generation of anti-Israeli resistance. Example, look at Afghanistan and how the Taliban kept coming back from the dead and is now back in power.
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 9:38:42 GMT -5
Oh please. I commented that hostages in exchange for ceasefire was sensible. You jumped in to suggest the Israelis were the problem. Holding both sides accountable? You're hardly one to preach that. I have been clear that Bibi bears responsibility for a lot of this mess so spare me yr lectures.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 9:47:33 GMT -5
Oh please. I commented that hostages in exchange for ceasefire was sensible. You jumped in to suggest the Israelis were the problem. Netanyahu is the leader of Israel. He's the problem because hasn't prioritized hostage negotiations. I even shared a link that explained that he rejected a deal that could've gotten most women and children hostages released weeks ago. Secondly, there's no alternative to negotiations with Hamas if getting the hostages back alive is the goal. This isn't a movie. There will be no special ops mission that rescues all the hostages. If the goal is to get them back alive, there will have to be negotiations with Hamas and I assume that those negotiations are happening.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 10:23:52 GMT -5
I have conceded and agreed that the IHR is a disreputable publication. However, the article by McCloskey is not denying the Holocaust, nor is he a Holocaust denier. Furthermore the SPLCenter is also a dubious organisation, on the other side of the coin. What reason do you have for calling the SPLC "dubious"? A little simple research. Here, take your pick.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 10:32:44 GMT -5
What reason do you have for calling the SPLC "dubious"? A little simple research. Here, take your pick. You're starting to sound like a member of the GOP might here in the states. All because you don't like what it said.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 10:35:18 GMT -5
Supposedly they were ready to do this. The record of Hamas re negotiations/promises is pretty spotty. And note not all hostages. Both sides haven't kept promises Maggie. Israel has expanded illegal settlements in the West Bank. They've broken ceasefires. They've provoked Muslims and Christians with their actions around Jerusalem. Some only hold one side accountable. That's what you and Summer do. Israelis aren't as blind as Americans and are holding Netanyahu accountable for not negotiating to get the hostages released. Representatives of loved ones of hostages held by Hamas in Gaza told the Israeli prime minister that they supported an all-for-all deal and believed this would have strong national supportThe CIA director is currently in Qatar. I assume his visit is related to the hostage negotiations. Lastly, it's impossible to destroy an idea. No matter how many Palestinian civilians Israel kills, they won't destroy Hamas as an idea. They're just creating the next generation of anti-Israeli resistance. Example, look at Afghanistan and how the Taliban kept coming back from the dead and is now back in power. Blah blah. Don't agree with soulflower; don't post as soulflower wants you to post; soulflower thinks he is the only one entitled to post what they wish. But don't call him out for happily casting aspersions upon you.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 10:37:58 GMT -5
You're starting to sound like a member of the GOP might here in the states. All because you don't like what it said. Too funny ... Straight backatcha, summer, straight backatcha. 😅
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 10:40:48 GMT -5
Both sides haven't kept promises Maggie. Israel has expanded illegal settlements in the West Bank. They've broken ceasefires. They've provoked Muslims and Christians with their actions around Jerusalem. Some only hold one side accountable. That's what you and Summer do. Israelis aren't as blind as Americans and are holding Netanyahu accountable for not negotiating to get the hostages released. Representatives of loved ones of hostages held by Hamas in Gaza told the Israeli prime minister that they supported an all-for-all deal and believed this would have strong national supportThe CIA director is currently in Qatar. I assume his visit is related to the hostage negotiations. Lastly, it's impossible to destroy an idea. No matter how many Palestinian civilians Israel kills, they won't destroy Hamas as an idea. They're just creating the next generation of anti-Israeli resistance. Example, look at Afghanistan and how the Taliban kept coming back from the dead and is now back in power. Blah blah. Don't agree with soulflower; don't post as soulflower wants you to post; soulflower thinks he is the only one entitled to post what they wish. But don't call him out for happily casting aspersions upon you. It’s called a “spirited debate”. If you’re looking for a “safe space” from dissenting opinions you’re in the wrong place
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 10:41:34 GMT -5
Blah blah. Don't agree with soulflower; don't post as soulflower wants you to post; soulflower thinks he is the only one entitled to post what they wish. But don't call him out for happily casting aspersions upon you. It’s called a “spirited debate”. If you’re looking for a “safe space” from dissenting opinions you’re in the wrong place Oh. Is that what you call it now? Got it.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 10:49:24 GMT -5
Blah blah. Don't agree with soulflower; don't post as soulflower wants you to post; soulflower thinks he is the only one entitled to post what they wish. But don't call him out for happily casting aspersions upon you. It’s called a “spirited debate”. If you’re looking for a “safe space” from dissenting opinions you’re in the wrong place How dare you have a dissenting opinion from the Israeli apologists? It's downright rude of you. Go and throw yourself to the ground. 😄
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 11:05:01 GMT -5
I think that it muddles the waters when people who are anti-Jew cover for themselves by claiming to be anti-Israel. Oh, wait. That's anti-Zionist. My bad.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 11:15:19 GMT -5
I think that people who deliberately, and in cowardly fashion, try to paint anybody with dissenting views to Israeli politics and Zionism as 'anti-Semites' in an effort to 'silence' them, are the lowest of the low.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 11:23:42 GMT -5
People are really exposing themselves.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 9, 2023 11:26:08 GMT -5
Spirited debates are awesome!
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Post by pickle20 on Nov 9, 2023 11:26:42 GMT -5
People are really exposing themselves. Wow. Pro-genocide. Nice.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 9, 2023 12:18:55 GMT -5
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Post by mrsmlh on Nov 9, 2023 12:35:37 GMT -5
If Hamas wants a cease fire they need to release the hostages. Hamas was willing to release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire a few weeks ago but Israel refused. Last month an agreement was close to being finalized, according to current and former officials in three of the involved regional capitals, for the release of all civilian women, children, older adults and the sick in exchange for a five-day cessation of hostilities and to allow more humanitarian assistance to enter Gaza. Israel nixed that deal by launching its ground incursion.www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/opinion/israel-hamas-cease-fire.htmlI'm sure that Israel will find a way to blame the Hamas/Palestinians
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Post by JoyinMudville on Nov 9, 2023 16:26:42 GMT -5
Hamas was willing to release the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire a few weeks ago but Israel refused. Last month an agreement was close to being finalized, according to current and former officials in three of the involved regional capitals, for the release of all civilian women, children, older adults and the sick in exchange for a five-day cessation of hostilities and to allow more humanitarian assistance to enter Gaza. Israel nixed that deal by launching its ground incursion.www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/opinion/israel-hamas-cease-fire.htmlI'm sure that Israel will find a way to blame the Hamas/Palestinians Well, Hamas did take over 200 hostages so, yes, it is Hamas’ fault
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 16:32:27 GMT -5
I'm sure that Israel will find a way to blame the Hamas/Palestinians Well, Hamas did take over 200 hostages so, yes, it is Hamas’ fault The bottom-line is that Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring them home alive.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 16:38:47 GMT -5
Well, Hamas did take over 200 hostages so, yes, it is Hamas’ fault The bottom-line is that Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring them home alive. If he can't be arsed about 10,000+ Palestinian civilian deaths, why should he care about a couple of hundred hostages, seems a reasonable tariff?
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Post by soulflower on Nov 9, 2023 16:56:40 GMT -5
Israel hasn't just lost the Left, they're losing a generation.
There's a wide gap between people under age 40 and over age 40 on views of Israel and it's widening...
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 9, 2023 17:31:41 GMT -5
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Post by msmaggie on Nov 9, 2023 21:01:54 GMT -5
Well, Hamas did take over 200 hostages so, yes, it is Hamas’ fault The bottom-line is that Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring them home alive. Bibi is Israel's Trump. Got in big trouble with the law and saw a way out was getting himself back into power. His intentions are beyond questionable.
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Post by WKDWZD on Nov 10, 2023 6:33:38 GMT -5
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Post by ivanbalt on Nov 10, 2023 6:40:00 GMT -5
People are really exposing themselves. There's a few here who would openly support the extermination of Palestinians so this isn't a surprise.
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Post by summer23 on Nov 10, 2023 7:17:35 GMT -5
People are really exposing themselves. There's a few here who would openly support the extermination of Palestinians so this isn't a surprise. There are few here who would openly support the leveling of Israel and the extermination of all Israelis - if they were honest.
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Post by Ranger John on Nov 10, 2023 12:53:28 GMT -5
Well, Hamas did take over 200 hostages so, yes, it is Hamas’ fault The bottom-line is that Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring them home alive. Wow... now there's some serious victim blaming. Why aren't you calling for the destruction of Hamas as a means to free the hostages? Or at least as a means of preventing this from happening again? Oh yeah, because it's Netanyahu’s fault Hamas is a baby-decapitating terrorist mob.
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Post by soulflower on Nov 10, 2023 13:09:12 GMT -5
The bottom-line is that Netanyahu isn't doing everything he can to bring them home alive. Wow... now there's some serious victim blaming. Netanyahu is a victim of his own policy of empowering Hamas. No one is criticizing Netanyahu currently more than the Israelis themselves. Not only is he partly responsible for the political and security environment that led up to 10/7, he has rejected opportunities to get the hostages released. CBS News: Netanyahu faces rising anger from within Israel after Hamas attackWhy aren't you calling for the destruction of Hamas as a means to free the hostages? Or at least as a means of preventing this from happening again? Because I live in the real world, not a Hollywood Action movie. Negotiating with Hamas is the best way to get the hostages freed alive.
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