|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 10:01:47 GMT -5
In my last few posts in this thread I’ve said: - I don’t care if Hamas is deposed as the government of Gaza. They don’t deserve to govern Gaza imho. - I view Hamas as an obstacle to peace in the region. - I’ve described Hamas attacks on civilians as “terrorism”. Maybe you missed those comments? The fact that some people on both sides of this issue are behaving badly or saying offensive things doesn’t de-legitimize criticism of Israel nor is it fair to argue that most pro-Palestine protesters support Hamas… Are those people not liable for Hamas' actions? And were those actions not war crimes? Not the majority of civilians in Gaza given that the majority of their population wasn’t born yet when the last election was held. Not even a majority of Gazans elected Hamas in 2006. They won with a plurality of the vote. Netanyahu was elected. Does that justify holding ALL Israeli civilians accountable for his war crimes? How far do you take that logic? |
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 1, 2023 10:09:41 GMT -5
Who elected Hamas? Are those people not liable for Hamas' actions? And were those actions not war crimes? Not the majority of civilians in Gaza given that the majority of their population wasn’t born yet when the last election was held. Not even a majority of Gazans elected Hamas in 2006. They won with a plurality of the vote. Netanyahu was elected. Does that justify holding ALL Israeli civilians accountable for his war crimes? How far do you take that logic? Bibi was put in office by a plurality as well. You reference "Israel's war crimes" in your posts. So which is it? If it's Israel's war crimes, it's Gaza's war crimes. I find this infantilizing of Palestinians strange. They bear no responsibility for Hamas? Why not? |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 10:53:48 GMT -5
Not the majority of civilians in Gaza given that the majority of their population wasn’t born yet when the last election was held. Not even a majority of Gazans elected Hamas in 2006. They won with a plurality of the vote. Netanyahu was elected. Does that justify holding ALL Israeli civilians accountable for his war crimes? How far do you take that logic? Bibi was put in office by a plurality as well. You reference "Israel's war crimes" in your posts. So which is it? If it's Israel's war crimes, it's Gaza's war crimes. Gaza isn’t a country. Israel is a country. Gaza doesn’t have a military. Israel does and most Israelis are required to serve in their military. Hamas is a political party with a paramilitary force. There are 2 million people in Gaza but only 30-40,000 are Hamas members. I don’t see why all 2 million Gazans should bear responsibility for what Hamas does. .I find this infantilizing of Palestinians strange. They bear no responsibility for Hamas? Why not? As described above, it’s not a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza’s borders and access to the outside world. It has been described by several Human Rights Groups (including the Israeli ones) as an “open-air prison”. So given the huge imbalance of power, I’m more critical of the side that holds most of the power in this relationship. With great power comes great responsibility… |
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 1, 2023 11:48:03 GMT -5
Bibi was put in office by a plurality as well. You reference "Israel's war crimes" in your posts. So which is it? If it's Israel's war crimes, it's Gaza's war crimes. Gaza isn’t a country. Israel is a country. Gaza doesn’t have a military. Israel does and most Israelis are required to serve in their military. Hamas is a political party with a paramilitary force. There are 2 million people in Gaza but only 30-40,000 are Hamas members. I don’t see why all 2 million Gazans should bear responsibility for what Hamas does. .I find this infantilizing of Palestinians strange. They bear no responsibility for Hamas? Why not? As described above, it’s not a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza’s borders and access to the outside world. It has been described by several Human Rights Groups (including the Israeli ones) as an “open-air prison”. So given the huge imbalance of power, I’m more critical of the side that holds most of the power in this relationship. With great power comes great responsibility… Terrorism is a response we've come to expect in asymmetric relationships. Doesn't make it right And how do 30k people outweigh 2MM? Hamas hid in plain sight because tbe Gazans allowed it. You really think they built that system of tunnels without the compliance of the Gazans? I doubt the Israelis can eliminate Hamas. You know who could? The Palestinians. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 12:24:44 GMT -5
Gaza isn’t a country. Israel is a country. Gaza doesn’t have a military. Israel does and most Israelis are required to serve in their military. Hamas is a political party with a paramilitary force. There are 2 million people in Gaza but only 30-40,000 are Hamas members. I don’t see why all 2 million Gazans should bear responsibility for what Hamas does. As described above, it’s not a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza’s borders and access to the outside world. It has been described by several Human Rights Groups (including the Israeli ones) as an “open-air prison”. So given the huge imbalance of power, I’m more critical of the side that holds most of the power in this relationship. With great power comes great responsibility… Terrorism is a response we've come to expect in asymmetric relationships. Doesn't make it right And how do 30k people outweigh 2MM? Hamas hid in plain sight because tbe Gazans allowed it. You really think they built that system of tunnels without the compliance of the Gazans? I doubt the Israelis can eliminate Hamas. You know who could? The Palestinians. Hamas was not chosen by a majority of the people in Gaza. Prior to October 7th, surveys showed that Hamas was unpopular. Years ago, there was a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and rival Palestinian groups like Fatah. Hamas won in Gaza of course. How you expect a bunch of civilians without weapons overthrow an armed group, I have no idea. Meanwhile, Israel won’t gain the trust or support of people in Gaza who dislike Hamas because they’re indiscriminately bombing everyone in Gaza. It’s fascinating and notable to watch you do mental gymnastics to justify Israel’s collective punishment of Palestinian civilians. It really is. Meanwhile, people who know better, including Israelis, hold Netanyahu and Israel’s far-Right accountable because they are more familiar with the history of Israel boosting Hamas in order to weaken secular Palestinian groups and avoid implementing a Palestinian state. CBC: How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israelwww.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035I’m fully aware of how Israel’s far-Right and Hamas depend on each other. That’s why I said earlier, both Israel and the Palestinians would be better off without Netanyahu and Hamas… |
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 1, 2023 13:24:44 GMT -5
Terrorism is a response we've come to expect in asymmetric relationships. Doesn't make it right And how do 30k people outweigh 2MM? Hamas hid in plain sight because tbe Gazans allowed it. You really think they built that system of tunnels without the compliance of the Gazans? I doubt the Israelis can eliminate Hamas. You know who could? The Palestinians. Hamas was not chosen by a majority of the people in Gaza. Prior to October 7th, surveys showed that Hamas was unpopular. Years ago, there was a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and rival Palestinian groups like Fatah. Hamas won in Gaza of course. How you expect a bunch of civilians without weapons overthrow an armed group, I have no idea. Meanwhile, Israel won’t gain the trust or support of people in Gaza who dislike Hamas because they’re indiscriminately bombing everyone in Gaza. It’s fascinating and notable to watch you do mental gymnastics to justify Israel’s collective punishment of Palestinian civilians. It really is. Meanwhile, people who know better, including Israelis, hold Netanyahu and Israel’s far-Right accountable because they are more familiar with the history of Israel boosting Hamas in order to weaken secular Palestinian groups and avoid implementing a Palestinian state. CBC: How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israelwww.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035I’m fully aware of how Israel’s far-Right and Hamas depend on each other. That’s why I said earlier, both Israel and the Palestinians would be better off without Netanyahu and Hamas… As I said before, Bibi was not elected by the majority of Israelis either. It's fascinating and notable to watch you ignore the horrific actions of October 7th. And again, groups like Hamas rely on the support or at least the lack of opposition from the populations where they embed themselves. And you didn't answer my question: do you really think the Gazans were unaware of the extensive tunnels system Hamas built right under their noses? And other preparations for the assault--the equipment, weapons etc? Gaza is a pretty small place. Think about it. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 13:38:56 GMT -5
Hamas was not chosen by a majority of the people in Gaza. Prior to October 7th, surveys showed that Hamas was unpopular. Years ago, there was a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and rival Palestinian groups like Fatah. Hamas won in Gaza of course. How you expect a bunch of civilians without weapons overthrow an armed group, I have no idea. Meanwhile, Israel won’t gain the trust or support of people in Gaza who dislike Hamas because they’re indiscriminately bombing everyone in Gaza. It’s fascinating and notable to watch you do mental gymnastics to justify Israel’s collective punishment of Palestinian civilians. It really is. Meanwhile, people who know better, including Israelis, hold Netanyahu and Israel’s far-Right accountable because they are more familiar with the history of Israel boosting Hamas in order to weaken secular Palestinian groups and avoid implementing a Palestinian state. CBC: How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israelwww.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035I’m fully aware of how Israel’s far-Right and Hamas depend on each other. That’s why I said earlier, both Israel and the Palestinians would be better off without Netanyahu and Hamas… As I said before, Bibi was not elected by the majority of Israelis either. It's fascinating and notable to watch you ignore the horrific actions of October 7th. And again, groups like Hamas rely on the support or at least the lack of opposition from the populations where they embed themselves. And you didn't answer my question: do you really think the Gazans were unaware of the extensive tunnels system Hamas built right under their noses? And other preparations for the assault--the equipment, weapons etc? Gaza is a pretty small place. Think about it. Many Israelis would like to get rid of Netanyahu but they haven’t been able to. And Israel is a democracy. Given the above, can you at least try to imagine how much harder it is for Gazans to get rid of Hamas, when there are no elections for Gaza? Also, you see Hamas solely as a terrorist organization. I get it but that’s not the whole truth. They’re the official government of Gaza. So whether the people of Gaza like Hamas or not, they still need the public services that Hamas controls (ie food supplies, schools, hospitals, sanitation, etc). If they overthrow their government, who steps in to fill the power vacuum? The hard right in Israel doesn’t want the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, to run Gaza because they fear that would be a step closer to Palestinian Statehood. This is complex stuff and it’s also very polarizing. Which is why over-simplifying things or ignoring the nuances isn’t helpful. Most people who are sympathetic to the Palestinian side mean well and just want peace and equality for the region. How we get there is the question and as I said earlier, Hamas is an obstacle to peace and I’m fine with them being removed from the picture. I’m just not convinced that Israel or the Palestinians themselves can get rid of Hamas. As the article I shared earlier noted, Netanyahu helped create the monster that Hamas has become and now it’s not clear what the solution is… |
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 1, 2023 14:01:55 GMT -5
As I said before, Bibi was not elected by the majority of Israelis either. It's fascinating and notable to watch you ignore the horrific actions of October 7th. And again, groups like Hamas rely on the support or at least the lack of opposition from the populations where they embed themselves. And you didn't answer my question: do you really think the Gazans were unaware of the extensive tunnels system Hamas built right under their noses? And other preparations for the assault--the equipment, weapons etc? Gaza is a pretty small place. Think about it. Many Israelis would like to get rid of Netanyahu but they haven’t been able to. And Israel is a democracy. Given the above, can you at least try to imagine how much harder it is for Gazans to get rid of Hamas, when there are no elections for Gaza? Also, you see Hamas solely as a terrorist organization. I get it but that’s not the whole truth. They’re the official government of Gaza. So whether the people of Gaza like Hamas or not, they still need the public services that Hamas controls (ie food supplies, schools, hospitals, sanitation, etc). If they overthrow their government, who steps in to fill the power vacuum? The hard right in Israel doesn’t want the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, to run Gaza because they fear that would be a step closer to Palestinian Statehood. This is complex stuff and it’s also very polarizing. Which is why over-simplifying things or ignoring the nuances isn’t helpful. Most people who are sympathetic to the Palestinian side mean well and just want peace and equality for the region. How we get there is the question and as I said earlier, Hamas is an obstacle to peace and I’m fine with them being removed from the picture. I’m just not convinced that Israel or the Palestinians themselves can get rid of Hamas. As the article I shared earlier noted, Netanyahu helped create the monster that Hamas has become and now it’s not clear what the solution is… Gave you 2 opportunities to answer a question. You just keep repeating yourself and won't address it. So this conversation is over. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 14:32:43 GMT -5
Many Israelis would like to get rid of Netanyahu but they haven’t been able to. And Israel is a democracy. Given the above, can you at least try to imagine how much harder it is for Gazans to get rid of Hamas, when there are no elections for Gaza? Also, you see Hamas solely as a terrorist organization. I get it but that’s not the whole truth. They’re the official government of Gaza. So whether the people of Gaza like Hamas or not, they still need the public services that Hamas controls (ie food supplies, schools, hospitals, sanitation, etc). If they overthrow their government, who steps in to fill the power vacuum? The hard right in Israel doesn’t want the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank, to run Gaza because they fear that would be a step closer to Palestinian Statehood. This is complex stuff and it’s also very polarizing. Which is why over-simplifying things or ignoring the nuances isn’t helpful. Most people who are sympathetic to the Palestinian side mean well and just want peace and equality for the region. How we get there is the question and as I said earlier, Hamas is an obstacle to peace and I’m fine with them being removed from the picture. I’m just not convinced that Israel or the Palestinians themselves can get rid of Hamas. As the article I shared earlier noted, Netanyahu helped create the monster that Hamas has become and now it’s not clear what the solution is… Gave you 2 opportunities to answer a question. You just keep repeating yourself and won't address it. So this conversation is over. Fair enough. I didn’t answer your questions because I reject your framing of the issue. Israelis can’t get rid of Netanyahu despite their elections but somehow, civilians in Gaza, with no weapons, can get rid of Hamas? Nevermind the fact that Israel via collective punishment, alienates anybody in Gaza who might want to work with them to counter Hamas. Instead I responded with a long-winded explanation of my own point of view of the situation. We can agree to respectfully disagree… |
|
|
|
Post by WKDWZD on Nov 1, 2023 15:13:24 GMT -5
Hamas was not chosen by a majority of the people in Gaza. Prior to October 7th, surveys showed that Hamas was unpopular. Years ago, there was a civil war in Gaza between Hamas and rival Palestinian groups like Fatah. Hamas won in Gaza of course. How you expect a bunch of civilians without weapons overthrow an armed group, I have no idea. Meanwhile, Israel won’t gain the trust or support of people in Gaza who dislike Hamas because they’re indiscriminately bombing everyone in Gaza. It’s fascinating and notable to watch you do mental gymnastics to justify Israel’s collective punishment of Palestinian civilians. It really is. Meanwhile, people who know better, including Israelis, hold Netanyahu and Israel’s far-Right accountable because they are more familiar with the history of Israel boosting Hamas in order to weaken secular Palestinian groups and avoid implementing a Palestinian state. CBC: How Netanyahu's Hamas policy came back to haunt him — and Israelwww.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035I’m fully aware of how Israel’s far-Right and Hamas depend on each other. That’s why I said earlier, both Israel and the Palestinians would be better off without Netanyahu and Hamas… As I said before, Bibi was not elected by the majority of Israelis either. It's fascinating and notable to watch you ignore the horrific actions of October 7th. And again, groups like Hamas rely on the support or at least the lack of opposition from the populations where they embed themselves. And you didn't answer my question: do you really think the Gazans were unaware of the extensive tunnels system Hamas built right under their noses? And other preparations for the assault--the equipment, weapons etc? Gaza is a pretty small place. Think about it.Do you really think that if the Gazans knew about the tunnel system and the equipment, that Israel wouldn't also have known about it? 'loose lips ... ' and all that.
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 1, 2023 16:02:54 GMT -5
As I said before, Bibi was not elected by the majority of Israelis either. It's fascinating and notable to watch you ignore the horrific actions of October 7th. And again, groups like Hamas rely on the support or at least the lack of opposition from the populations where they embed themselves. And you didn't answer my question: do you really think the Gazans were unaware of the extensive tunnels system Hamas built right under their noses? And other preparations for the assault--the equipment, weapons etc? Gaza is a pretty small place. Think about it.Do you really think that if the Gazans knew about the tunnel system and the equipment, that Israel wouldn't also have known about it? 'loose lips ... ' and all that. I'm sure they were aware of the tunnels. The equipment etc.? Don't know. Can't imagine they knew that Hamas was amassing that weaponry and sat on their hands. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 16:18:38 GMT -5
Do you really think that if the Gazans knew about the tunnel system and the equipment, that Israel wouldn't also have known about it? 'loose lips ... ' and all that. I'm sure they were aware of the tunnels. The equipment etc.? Don't know. Can't imagine they knew that Hamas was amassing that weaponry and sat on their hands. What can unarmed civilians do against armed insurgents/terrorists? Hamas also tortures and kills Palestinians that they suspect are informants or traitors. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 1, 2023 16:20:08 GMT -5
Rep. Mast isn’t alone. Some posters on this forum don’t think the civilians in Gaza are innocent.
Comparing civilians in Gaza to Nazi Germany is next level gaslighting. And we can be certain that there will be no consequences for such hateful rhetoric from him…
|
|
|
|
Post by pickle20 on Nov 2, 2023 6:32:54 GMT -5
I'm hearing a lot of the Hamas/Nazi comparisons from the right. I think it's from people who listen to Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with the comparison but there are definitely similarities.
The problem with many pro-Israel supporters, especially those on the right, is trying to convince them that not all palestinians are terrorists or that they want to kill every Jew on earth. They seem to be convincing themselves of why its OK to massacre tens of thousands of innocent people in order to kill a few terrorists.
|
|
|
|
Post by WKDWZD on Nov 2, 2023 6:39:48 GMT -5
Rep. Mast isn’t alone. Some posters on this forum don’t think the civilians in Gaza are innocent. Comparing civilians in Gaza to Nazi Germany is next level gaslighting. And we can be certain that there will be no consequences for such hateful rhetoric from him… I'm hearing a lot of the Hamas/Nazi comparisons from the right. I think it's from people who listen to Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with the comparison but there are definitely similarities. The problem with many pro-Israel supporters, especially those on the right, is trying to convince them that not all palestinians are terrorists or that they want to kill every Jew on earth. They seem to be convincing themselves of why its OK to massacre tens of thousands of innocent people in order to kill a few terrorists. If anything, and one must make Nazi-like comparisons, right now. It is Israel and its military that are a closer comparison to the Nazis.
|
|
|
|
Post by pickle20 on Nov 2, 2023 6:42:47 GMT -5
I agree but I don't like using Nazi comparisons for the most part. The Nazis were their own brand of evil. Let the horrors committed by both sides of this war stand on their own.
|
|
|
|
Post by WKDWZD on Nov 2, 2023 6:49:42 GMT -5
I agree but I don't like using Nazi comparisons for the most part. The Nazis were their own brand of evil. Let the horrors committed by both sides of this war stand on their own. Nor do I. But as someone else did, I felt the need to correct the false statement.
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 2, 2023 6:54:00 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by summer23 on Nov 2, 2023 7:26:09 GMT -5
Oh. Poll results! Soulflower's favorite thing! 
|
|
|
|
Post by mrsmlh on Nov 2, 2023 7:52:15 GMT -5
It is not okay to support the slaughter of "innocent" people whether they be Israelis or Palestinians. Unfortunately you seem to feel that the slaughter of over 15,000 Palestinians is okay because 5,000 Israelis were slaughtered. (Figures are not accurate and only used to show the disproportion of innocents slaughtered.)
|
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 2, 2023 8:12:33 GMT -5
I'm hearing a lot of the Hamas/Nazi comparisons from the right. I think it's from people who listen to Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with the comparison but there are definitely similarities. The problem with many pro-Israel supporters, especially those on the right, is trying to convince them that not all palestinians are terrorists or that they want to kill every Jew on earth. They seem to be convincing themselves of why its OK to massacre tens of thousands of innocent people in order to kill a few terrorists. You have to dehumanize your enemy to justify committing what you know are war crimes. And I'll add that the extremes on both sides do this. (Hamas and Israel's extremists) People here in the US should know better than to take part in the dehumanization. And that applies to both sides of this issue as well...
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 2, 2023 8:12:51 GMT -5
It is not okay to support the slaughter of "innocent" people whether they be Israelis or Palestinians. Unfortunately you seem to feel that the slaughter of over 15,000 Palestinians is okay because 5,000 Israelis were slaughtered. (Figures are not accurate and only used to show the disproportion of innocents slaughtered.) I condemn both. I just don't accept the narrative that all blame is on one side, and that Israelis are culpable for Bibi's crimes but the Palestinians are not implicated in Hamas' crimes. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 2, 2023 8:14:45 GMT -5
^we have a winner. Didn't expect Maggie to be one of the few who rationalize injustices against non-Hamas Palestinians. Collective punishment never works. Vengeance is not a strategy...
|
|
|
|
Post by pickle20 on Nov 2, 2023 8:14:51 GMT -5
I'm hearing a lot of the Hamas/Nazi comparisons from the right. I think it's from people who listen to Ben Shapiro. I don't agree with the comparison but there are definitely similarities. The problem with many pro-Israel supporters, especially those on the right, is trying to convince them that not all palestinians are terrorists or that they want to kill every Jew on earth. They seem to be convincing themselves of why its OK to massacre tens of thousands of innocent people in order to kill a few terrorists. You have to dehumanize your enemy to justify committing what you know are war crimes. And I'll add that the extremes on both sides do this. (Hamas and Israel's extremists) People here in the US should know better than to take part in the dehumanization. And that applies to both sides of this issue as well... It seems for some we're back to post-9/11 rhetoric as it applies to Muslims. I've had people tell me "Muslim is evil" or "What is it about Islam that makes them bloodthirsty murderers?" It's all an excuse to massacre a population of Muslims. Reminds me of Starship Troopers. "The only good bug is a dead bug."
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 2, 2023 8:16:22 GMT -5
^we have a winner. Didn't expect Maggie to be one of the few who rationalize injustices against non-Hamas Palestinians. I don't. I just don't accept the narrative that Hamas doesn't have significant Palestinians' support. |
|
|
|
Post by pickle20 on Nov 2, 2023 8:17:12 GMT -5
Does non-combative support for Hamas deserve a death sentence?
I mean, if you cooked meals for Hamas, or put them up in your apartment for a week 5 years ago, do you deserve to die?
What if you have no connection to Hamas, but in decades of anger you've cursed Israel and wished for them to suffer, like you've suffered? Does that thought deserve death?
It's a tricky relationship Hamas has with Palestinians and vice versa. The threat of punishment or death for not going along with Hamas has a way of making someone a Hamas "supporter."
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 2, 2023 8:20:56 GMT -5
Does non-combative support for Hamas deserve a death sentence? I mean, if you cooked meals for Hamas, or put them up in your apartment for a week 5 years ago, do you deserve to die? It's a tricky relationship Hamas has with Palestinians and vice versa. The threat of punishment or death for not going along with Hamas has a way of making someone a Hamas "supporter." Of course not. Read the articles I posted. I think Hamas has a lot of support among Palestinians. Not coerced. Actual support. And guess what? Not sure I blame them. No question they have been badly treated by Israel. But as my friend SF says, collective punishment never works. |
|
|
|
Post by soulflower on Nov 2, 2023 8:21:07 GMT -5
^we have a winner. Didn't expect Maggie to be one of the few who rationalize injustices against non-Hamas Palestinians. I don't. I just don't accept the narrative that Hamas doesn't have significant Palestinians' support.I didn't deny that Hamas has some support among the Palestinians. It's just not unanimous the same way Israelis don't unanimously support Netanyahu or Israel's far-right. Should you be held accountable for things Trump did as President even though (I assume) you didn't vote for him? Why then is it okay to hold Palestinians, most of whom didn't elect Hamas, accountable for what Hamas did on Oct. 7th. And it's being reported that not even all Hamas officials knew what was planned for that day. It was kept very secret...
|
|
|
|
Post by pickle20 on Nov 2, 2023 8:23:43 GMT -5
Does non-combative support for Hamas deserve a death sentence? I mean, if you cooked meals for Hamas, or put them up in your apartment for a week 5 years ago, do you deserve to die? It's a tricky relationship Hamas has with Palestinians and vice versa. The threat of punishment or death for not going along with Hamas has a way of making someone a Hamas "supporter." Of course not. Read the articles I posted. I think Hamas has a lot of support among Palestinians. Not coerced. Actual support. And guess what? Not sure I blame them. No question they have been badly treated by Israel. But as my friend SF says, collective punishment never works. I have to think that Hamas has lost whatever support of the people they had after this.
|
|
|
|
Post by msmaggie on Nov 2, 2023 8:24:31 GMT -5
I don't. I just don't accept the narrative that Hamas doesn't have significant Palestinians' support.I didn't deny that Hamas has some support among the Palestinians. It's just not unanimous the same way Israelis don't unanimously support Netanyahu or Israel's far-right. Should you be held accountable for things Trump did as President even though (I assume) you didn't vote for him? Why then is it okay to hold Palestinians, most of whom didn't elect Hamas, accountable for what Hamas did on Oct. 7th. And it's being reported that not even all Hamas officials knew what was planned for that day. It was kept very secret... Well yes we are collectively responsible for Trump. He didn't fall from the sky. I didn't claim ALL Palestinians support Hamas. But read the articles I posted. More than half according to recent polls. |
|
