summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 7, 2023 22:52:46 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's what SF is arguing. Israel has the right to defend themselves but they should try harder to avoid killing Palestinian civilians. The Palestinians have the right to resist Israel’s repression but they should try to avoid killing Israeli civilians. There’s no contradictions between the above statements. Do you agree or disagree? Aside from that, you can only repress people for so long before they explode. Given world history, these sort of ethnic tensions go one of two ways: 1 - Ethnic cleansing and genocide. or 2 - Pluralism and Multiculturalism. If Israel can’t figure out how to guarantee the human rights and self-determination of the Palestinians then the future for Israel looks very dark. Should the terrorists try "harder" to avoid killing Israeli citizens or just try to avoid it?
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 8, 2023 6:08:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's what SF is arguing. Israel has the right to defend themselves but they should try harder to avoid killing Palestinian civilians. The Palestinians have the right to resist Israel’s repression but they should try to avoid killing Israeli civilians. There’s no contradictions between the above statements. Do you agree or disagree? Aside from that, you can only repress people for so long before they explode. Given world history, these sort of ethnic tensions go one of two ways: 1 - Ethnic cleansing and genocide. or 2 - Pluralism and Multiculturalism. If Israel can’t figure out how to guarantee the human rights and self-determination of the Palestinians then the future for Israel looks very dark. At this point, why should Israel act any different from the Palestinians? Why shouldn't they go around saying "From the river to the sea, Israel shall be free!" Why shouldn't they see Gaza and the West Bank as occupied Israeli territories and Palestinian "colonies?" Why shouldn't they send the IDF rampaging into Gaza, killing everyone they see and firing missiles indiscriminately into apartmemts? Israel has offered the Palestinians "self-determination" and tried the "two state solution" but the Palestinians refuse to accept it. They won't accept anything short of the conquest of Israel. Hamas and the PLO don't even want self determination. We know this because they haven't had parliamentary or presidential elections since 2006.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 7:12:47 GMT -5
Israel has the right to defend themselves but they should try harder to avoid killing Palestinian civilians. The Palestinians have the right to resist Israel’s repression but they should try to avoid killing Israeli civilians. There’s no contradictions between the above statements. Do you agree or disagree? Aside from that, you can only repress people for so long before they explode. Given world history, these sort of ethnic tensions go one of two ways: 1 - Ethnic cleansing and genocide. or 2 - Pluralism and Multiculturalism. If Israel can’t figure out how to guarantee the human rights and self-determination of the Palestinians then the future for Israel looks very dark. Should the terrorists try "harder" to avoid killing Israeli citizens or just try to avoid it? The tone policing is annoying. If I don’t say I’m against Cancer does that mean I’m “pro-Cancer”? You hold me to unreasonably high standards.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 7:18:28 GMT -5
Israel has the right to defend themselves but they should try harder to avoid killing Palestinian civilians. The Palestinians have the right to resist Israel’s repression but they should try to avoid killing Israeli civilians. There’s no contradictions between the above statements. Do you agree or disagree? Aside from that, you can only repress people for so long before they explode. Given world history, these sort of ethnic tensions go one of two ways: 1 - Ethnic cleansing and genocide. or 2 - Pluralism and Multiculturalism. If Israel can’t figure out how to guarantee the human rights and self-determination of the Palestinians then the future for Israel looks very dark. At this point, why should Israel act any different from the Palestinians? Why shouldn't they go around saying "From the river to the sea, Israel shall be free!" Why shouldn't they see Gaza and the West Bank as occupied Israeli territories and Palestinian "colonies?" Why shouldn't they send the IDF rampaging into Gaza, killing everyone they see and firing missiles indiscriminately into apartmemts? Israel has offered the Palestinians "self-determination" and tried the "two state solution" but the Palestinians refuse to accept it. They won't accept anything short of the conquest of Israel. Hamas and the PLO don't even want self determination. We know this because they haven't had parliamentary or presidential elections since 2006. They are not on a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza like an open air prison. When the oppressed revolt, it’s never pretty. Look at the history of slave revolts for example. And take my word for it on the open air prison thing: I also think you’re overselling Israel’s desire to make peace with the Palestinians. The last time they had a leader who made a good faith effort on that front, they killed him. Times of Israel: Rabin was assassinated with Netanyahu’s cooperation
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Post by Ranger John on Oct 8, 2023 7:36:12 GMT -5
At this point, why should Israel act any different from the Palestinians? Why shouldn't they go around saying "From the river to the sea, Israel shall be free!" Why shouldn't they see Gaza and the West Bank as occupied Israeli territories and Palestinian "colonies?" Why shouldn't they send the IDF rampaging into Gaza, killing everyone they see and firing missiles indiscriminately into apartmemts? Israel has offered the Palestinians "self-determination" and tried the "two state solution" but the Palestinians refuse to accept it. They won't accept anything short of the conquest of Israel. Hamas and the PLO don't even want self determination. We know this because they haven't had parliamentary or presidential elections since 2006. They are not on a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza like an open air prison. When the oppressed revolt, it’s never pretty. Look at the history of slave revolts for example. And take my word for it on the open air prison thing: I also think you’re overselling Israel’s desire to make peace with the Palestinians. The last time they had a leader who made a good faith effort on that front, they killed him. Times of Israel: Rabin was assassinated with Netanyahu’s cooperation Who cares if they're not on a level playing field? Life ain't fair. Perhaps the Palestinians should have thought of that before poking the bear again because they're collectively stupid. The main barrier to peace has always been the Palestinians. Just look at what they did yesterday. And all the previous intifada. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And of course Gaza is a concentration camp. For the same reason North Korea is. It's run by tyrants called Hamas.
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Post by pickle20 on Oct 8, 2023 7:42:25 GMT -5
They are not on a level playing field. Israel controls Gaza like an open air prison. When the oppressed revolt, it’s never pretty. Look at the history of slave revolts for example. And take my word for it on the open air prison thing: I also think you’re overselling Israel’s desire to make peace with the Palestinians. The last time they had a leader who made a good faith effort on that front, they killed him. Times of Israel: Rabin was assassinated with Netanyahu’s cooperation Who cares if they're not on a level playing field? Life ain't fair. Perhaps the Palestinians should have thought of that before poking the bear again because they're collectively stupid. The main barrier to peace has always been the Palestinians. Just look at what they did yesterday. And all the previous intifada. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And of course Gaza is a concentration camp. For the same reason North Korea is. It's run by tyrants called Hamas. And that is why terrorism exists.
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Post by WKDWZD on Oct 8, 2023 7:54:39 GMT -5
Who cares if they're not on a level playing field? Life ain't fair. Perhaps the Palestinians should have thought of that before poking the bear again because they're collectively stupid. The main barrier to peace has always been the Palestinians. Just look at what they did yesterday. And all the previous intifada. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. And of course Gaza is a concentration camp. For the same reason North Korea is. It's run by tyrants called Hamas. And that is why terrorism exists. Bingo! It really isn't rocket science is it?
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 7:57:27 GMT -5
Should the terrorists try "harder" to avoid killing Israeli citizens or just try to avoid it? The tone policing is annoying. If I don’t say I’m against Cancer does that mean I’m “pro-Cancer”? You hold me to unreasonably high standards. Pointing out the difference in your statements is not tone policing.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 8:09:09 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 8:14:53 GMT -5
The tone policing is annoying. If I don’t say I’m against Cancer does that mean I’m “pro-Cancer”? You hold me to unreasonably high standards. Pointing out the difference in your statements is not tone policing. I’m obviously sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians but I’ve made clear hundreds of times here that I oppose war and terrorism. It’s also lost on some here that I oppose Hamas. All I’ve tried to explain here is that violent resistance is inevitable when all other forms of resistance to oppression have failed. Things wil get worse over there before they get better because on the other side, Israelis are becoming more reactionary and more frequently calling for ethnic cleansing.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 8:28:51 GMT -5
Pointing out the difference in your statements is not tone policing. I’m obviously sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians but I’ve made clear hundreds of times here that I oppose war and terrorism. It’s also lost on some here that I oppose Hamas. All I’ve tried to explain here is that violent resistance is inevitable when all other forms of resistance to oppression have failed. Things wil get worse over there before they get better because on the other side, Israelis are becoming more reactionary and more frequently calling for ethnic cleansing. Israel is sitting in a hotbed of hatred. Hezbollah is involved. Hundreds of civilians were deliberately murdered. Iraeli citizens were killed in Egypt. And Israel has overreacted in response. M'kay. Read more at: www.deccanherald.com/world/hezbollah-tells-palestinian-militants-our-guns-and-rockets-are-with-you-2-2717632
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 8:33:26 GMT -5
I’m obviously sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians but I’ve made clear hundreds of times here that I oppose war and terrorism. It’s also lost on some here that I oppose Hamas. All I’ve tried to explain here is that violent resistance is inevitable when all other forms of resistance to oppression have failed. Things wil get worse over there before they get better because on the other side, Israelis are becoming more reactionary and more frequently calling for ethnic cleansing. Israel is sitting in a hotbed of hatred. Hezbollah is involved. Hundreds of civilians were deliberately murdered. Iraeli citizens were killed in Egypt. And Israel has overreacted in response. M'kay. Read more at: www.deccanherald.com/world/hezbollah-tells-palestinian-militants-our-guns-and-rockets-are-with-you-2-2717632 You’re obviously more sympathetic to Israel and that’s fine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue. But I won’t accuse you of supporting Israel’s extremism as you’re attempting to do to me…
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 8:38:46 GMT -5
You’re obviously more sympathetic to Israel and that’s fine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue. But I won’t accuse you of supporting Israel’s extremism as you’re attempting to do to me… Yes, I am. I am not neutral. Nor are you. You should remove the claim that you are.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 8:53:20 GMT -5
You’re obviously more sympathetic to Israel and that’s fine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue. But I won’t accuse you of supporting Israel’s extremism as you’re attempting to do to me… Yes, I am. I am not neutral. Nor are you. You should remove the claim that you are. It’s a play on words referencing this story: “…people here and in Europe are quite concerned about why Pakistan is taking such an aggressively neutral position (on Ukraine), if such a position is even possible. It does not seem such a neutral stand to us.“theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/Imran Khan’s “crime” was that he said Pakistan was a friend of the US, China, and Russia and he wouldn’t get involved in the war.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 9:24:58 GMT -5
Let me be clear about something. I am sympathetic to the innocent citizens (and others) of Palestine and Israel - women, children, and men. I am never understanding or sympathetic to terrorists, especially those that deliberately target the aforementioned. And, yes, before you ask, I don't always agree with Israel's leadership just like I don't always agree with my country's leadership.
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Post by JoyinMudville on Oct 8, 2023 9:27:14 GMT -5
Should the terrorists try "harder" to avoid killing Israeli citizens or just try to avoid it? The tone policing is annoying. If I don’t say I’m against Cancer does that mean I’m “pro-Cancer”? You hold me to unreasonably high standards. Did it ever occur to you that the problem isn’t that no one can understand your ‘sophisticated’ and ‘nuanced’ posts but that your posts are perfectly clear, quite revealing about your worldview, and that we don’t agree?
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 9:44:30 GMT -5
The tone policing is annoying. If I don’t say I’m against Cancer does that mean I’m “pro-Cancer”? You hold me to unreasonably high standards. Did it ever occur to you that the problem isn’t that no one can understand your ‘sophisticated’ and ‘nuanced’ posts but that your posts are perfectly clear, quite revealing about your worldview, and that we don’t agree? That’s fine. I’m aware that my strong anti-war views and frequent criticisms of US foreign policies are unpopular here. All I ask is that we respectfully disagree.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 10:03:13 GMT -5
Not sure if RFK Jr was really interested in running as a Libertarian but his views on Israel and calls for violence against the Palestinians seems to be turning off many of his Libertarian supporters
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Post by pickle20 on Oct 8, 2023 10:16:24 GMT -5
So he's against support Ukraine but for supporting Israel. So much for that anti-war stance.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 10:31:01 GMT -5
So he's against support Ukraine but for supporting Israel. So much for that anti-war stance. He said during an interview today that if elected, he will immediately end the war between Ukraine and Russia. He has super powers I guess.
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Post by WKDWZD on Oct 8, 2023 10:42:49 GMT -5
So he's against support Ukraine but for supporting Israel. So much for that anti-war stance. He said during an interview today that if elected, he will immediately end the war between Ukraine and Russia. He has super powers I guess. Hell, if he can do that, I'll vote for him.
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 11:04:52 GMT -5
The chaos is spreading across Israel
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 11:16:12 GMT -5
The attack was praised by Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi.
According to Hamas leader - Ismail Haniyeh.
Iran's proxy war.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 11:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 11:38:03 GMT -5
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Post by soulflower on Oct 8, 2023 11:44:08 GMT -5
An Egyptian police officer opened fire on Israeli tourists in Alexandria, Egypt. Israelis have been advised to leave Egypt.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 11:46:24 GMT -5
And so that negates Iran's role? Do you not know by now that life is not exact? That nothing is "black and white". And, in reality, it can be quite ugly and sometimes people have to make ugly decisions? I mean, you commented on another post about "gray" areas.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 11:47:09 GMT -5
An Egyptian police officer opened fire on Israeli tourists in Alexandria, Egypt. Israelis have been advised to leave Egypt. Yeah. I posted that earlier. Of course, it wasn't a tweet. My daughter lives around the corner from the residence of an Israeli official. I saw it when I was there. Heavily guarded. I would imagine that they are gone by now. Hopefully terrorists won't bomb the neighborhood to make sure. Or Abdel Fattah El-Sisi.
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Post by alienrace on Oct 8, 2023 11:48:19 GMT -5
Saw a video of a woman being dragged by her hair and bleeding profusely from her vagina. Nothing says freedom like rape and kidnapping innocent civilians.
Sorry, these are sick mfers that need to be destroyed and eliminated.
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summer23
Full Member
There is no path to peace. Peace IS the path.
Posts: 1,630
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Post by summer23 on Oct 8, 2023 11:50:59 GMT -5
Saw a video of a woman being dragged by her hair and bleeding profusely from her vagina. Nothing says freedom like rape and kidnapping innocent civilians. Sorry, these are sick mfers that need to be destroyed and eliminated. Probably provoked and should be careful about killing and/or abducting innocents. Sigh.
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